Code: Where is it?

seized123

Wannabe DIYer here. Of course on this forum and every where else we are supposed to check our local code. Regarding oil heat where the heck out there does this code live? I called the town building dept and they knew nothing and said they don’t inspect oil furnace systems. I know there’s the NFPA, that’s national, and I found something called the New York State Mechanical Code, so, state, but when I mentioned those to the two oil co. techs that have been out here recently they looked at me like I had two heads, and anyway they clearly weren’t up to date on any code. Must everyone in the US follow the NFPA and everyone in New York State follow its mechanical code AND the NFPA, or can municipalities decide what provisions of those codes they want to adapt, adding or deleting? And do some just not have an official statement of what’s code? In other words, how does this all work, and how might a person in Orange County NY go about finding a nice clear statement of what applies in one’s hometown?

(I know I could call the oil company but talking to anybody besides a receptionist is a pain. I’d ask my plumber but he retired and moved south so I don’t have one now.)

Larry (from OSHA)

This might give you some historical perspective. I have no idea how much the code has changed since this was published but it might be a starting point for you. Another resource could be your insurance company. What is it you are trying to find out?

https://heatinghelp.com/heating-museum/installation-of-oil-burning-equipment-1941/

Hope this helps.

Larry

Larry (from OSHA)

You may have seen this too. You need to make a free account to sign in but it will give you the NFPA codes.

https://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-standards/all-codes-and-standards/list-of-codes-and-standards/detail?code=31

pecmsg

Why code? That is the bear bones minimum standard! 

EBEBRATT-Ed

@seized123

There are many different codes. The one that applies in your area is the one adopted by your city or state.

Most states adopt the NFPA codes for oil.

That being said, your location may have a more strict or less strict code than the NFPA

I don't know where Orange County is and I do not know New York Codes. (I am in MA & CT.)

I know NY City is very strict and upstate NY is like the wild west. They don't even know what a permit is..


I would suggest calling back your building department and asking them if they do not inspect oil installations, they should be able to tell you who does.

Possibly your local Fire dept does. You might call them. Thats who inspects oil installations in MA.

maybe @JohnNY or @Mad Dog_2 will chime in

seized123

Thanks @EBEBRATT-Ed I will call back buildings and maybe Fire and maybe oil co. It might be more like upstate here than the City.

CLamb

You can start your search here https://dos.ny.gov/building-standards-and-codes. For any local modifications to the codes you'll have to check your municipality's ordinances.

seized123

Gold mine of information. The Mechanical one is the one I've seen but I never found this website where they all are. I notice Gas has its own code, I guess Mechanical covers oil, other stuff obviously useful too, thanks CLamb!

mattmia2

The city/township/county ordinances will tell you what if any codes they use(or who they delegate it to). The state law will tell you what the state requires or who that is delegated to. There is almost certainly a state building department in NY that has jurisdiction if the city hasn't made its own rules.

seized123

I'll do some calling around.

Mad Dog_2

All of NYS is governed by an I.C.C-based code, (International Code Council)  including NYC, which often has more stringent requirements.  We have the Fuel Gas Code (based on NFPA); Mechanical Code; Plumbing Code and Building/Fire code.  In NYS, Courtney Nation is the most knowledgeable and helpful code official.  Very nice man.  Reach out to him. He'll answer your questions or put you on the right trail.  Mad Dog 🐕 

seized123

Very cool, thanks for the name and info!

EBEBRATT-Ed

TG I live in MA. All codes are state adopted codes and all cities and towns have to follow the state codes.

That's not to say things are perfect. Some local inspectors like to make their own "rules" but if they do and a contractor objects the inspector has to defend his rules before the state board if the contractor wants to go there.

NFPA for oil
NFPA 54 & 58 for natural or propane with MA amendments
NFPA 2023 for electrical with MA amendments

They also have a mechanical code not too sure what that is. It has been kicked around for years and is or was only enforced in the eastern part of the state.

seized123

Interesting. Sounds like it might be similar here.

seized123

Speaking of codes, @Mad Dog_2 or anyone else with knowledge of New York State: I am upgrading my supply line (new jacketed line, anti-siphon valve and shutoff at tank, tigerloop with spin-on filter) and I'd like to do it myself. Are there any laws or provisions in codes, etc., that this kind of thing must be done by certified techs, or else ... I don't know, something bad happens?

I ask because I was just reading about Massachussetts where a decade or so ago they had a new LAW mandating improvements (anti-siphon or OSV, protected line) and the law said only techs could do the work (and there were all sorts of mandatory forms ... yeesh). Are there legal/liability downsides in NY or elsewhere other than Mass to a homeowner doing this stuff (making the assumption that the work was done right and to code)? I guess it only comes up if something goes wrong. I already know that from a quality point of view hiring a tech might be better, that's the DIY gamble in terms of quality work, but I'm wondering if there's still a downside if I do everything right but something goes wrong, like there's a fire and maybe a firefighter or neighbor is injured and all my Firomatics were in the right place but it doesn't count because a tech didn't put them there? Maybe this is really a question for my insurance company, but you guys have a lot of experience seeing DIYers do stuff and seeing stuff go wrong so I thought I'd ask your opinion.

GGross

Here in Michigan they allow what are called "Homeowner Permits" you can pull a permit for anything a pro could do, but only for your own private single family residence, and you cannot pay anyone to work under your permit. I would ask the building department if they offer homeowner permits for your project. As for the insurance company? Generally they just want to see that permits were pulled, and inspections were passed, but there is always the chance for the installer to bare some liability for messing up.

seized123

@GGross, interesting. I think where I am no permit is required for the stuff I'm thinking of doing, like updated the oil supply line or routine plumbing. But I think otherwise it's similar here to what you describe, like if I wanted to do electrical myself, say, I'd need a permit but as the homeowner it's no problem to get one (the stuff would get inspected when it's done). I don't think any permits/inspections are done at all on plumbing or heating upgrades - I don't even think if you get a new boiler, say, they have to inspect it, though I could be wrong. The only thing they seem interested in inspecting in existing residences are like wood or gas stoves or fireplaces, far as I can tell.

So, looking at the "E-Code" that the town has posted on its website, I see zero mention of residential plumbing or heating codes (other than for the stoves/fireplaces mentioned above) but in the sections regarding the Building Inspector there is mention of enforcing the Uniform Fire Prevention and Building Code, which I looked up and I think that's just an umbrella term for all the NYS codes (Mechanical, Plumbing, etc.) that @Mad Dog_2 referenced and @CLamb provided a link to. So I think if I ever want to know what's code here, it's those state codes, unless I see some modification in the town's E-Code which so far I don't! Thanks!

EBEBRATT-Ed

Insurance companies look for any reason not to pay. In most cases if everything is done right and something happens, they look at it and nothing wrong is seen so it doesn't attract their attention. But there is no guarantee on this if permits are needed.

seized123

Makes sense. I'm pretty sure here no permits are needed for oil heat changes and routine plumbing. Looks like just electrical and stoves/fireplaces.

GGross

What is the extent of work? It sounded like you are running a new fuel line. Here that would most definitely require a permit. The only things that don't would be very small things, like service work. We have to pull a permit to install a bath fan, we need 2 permits to install or replace a water heater in my county lol

seized123

New fuel line. I don’t think they require a permit. The closest thing on their list is new heating unit and oil tank removal/install. I’ll call though. I’d welcome it cuz then it’d get inspected.

Mad Dog_2

Even as stringent as Long Island 🏝 and NYC can be, I never heard anyone getting a permit to run a new oil line.  Oil companies were never big on permits to begin with, not happening.  Mad Dog 🐕 

seized123

Pretty sure it’s not done here either.

GGross

Interesting, now I am curious if we have different rules here for oil lines as well, I know they require permits for any other fuel lines here

@Mad Dog_2
When you guys pull a permit for a water heater out there do they make you pull separate permits for the plumbing and the gas or electrical connection? We have to pull 2 here in my county (Plumbing and either mech/electric), and they are trying to get the rest of the inspectors in Michigan to do the same. I just figure the result is less permits pulled for water heaters lol

EBEBRATT-Ed

In MA two permits for a water heater are required. But on a replacement the plumber usually just reconnects the wiring. Most replacement water heaters are done without a permit although they are not supposed to.