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NYC plumber "Going up the Country."

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Mad Dog_2
Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,245
edited July 2023 in THE MAIN WALL
In to the Gorgeous Hudson Valley of New State this past weekend to help out some close friends in their 1866 Farmhouse that his great grandfather built. They needed a new well pump & tank and an electric water heater.  I wound up replacing about 80% of the domestic hot and cold piping.  Soldered about  50 joints.  It was a mish mosh of original galvanized, Red Brass, Yellow brass, copper and even a little Uponor  pex. Left Long Island 🏝 about 430am, cutting out pipe by 715am..Blitzed it non stop for 13 hours, with one of those nasty summer colds 🥶 to boot!  Got water restored and hot water going. Spent a few hours  the next morning 🌄 playing with pressure & tank settings.  The ceiling is pretty low, but there just something special about working 💪 on a dirt floor, old hand hewn beams overhead and rubble foundations in a 157 year old home.  Also got to see first generation lead DWV handcrafted system.  I'm guessing between 125-135 yrs installed based on when plumbing came indoors and his famblies records. Still working,, no leaks..  This was A HUGE life changing event. No more having to walk out back to an old wooden outhouse in all kinds of weather.  Hopefully, the replumbing that I did lasts in to the 22nd Century!  Great fun...Mad Dog 🐕 
WMno57GGrossCLambHVACNUT

Comments

  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,245
    edited July 2023
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    TThe original plumbarius Latin for plumber. (worker of lead) encased the toilet lead bend and branches to pick up bathroom group and KS is encased in a Chunky block of concrete. Its hard to see but they hand bent very long radius 1 1/2" Lead.  They used to pack the pipe with sand so they wouldn't kink it.  What a level of skill these men had in their hands.  Mad Dog 🐕 
    mattmia2
  • SuperTech
    SuperTech Member Posts: 2,205
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    Looks good! Hudson Valley is my area. I haven't seen any red or yellow brass plumbing in at least ten years. Last time was in an old Poughkeepsie home. I really like seeing the old, hand hewn beams too, especially when they still have bark on one side. Come up this way more often, we need more guys doing quality work up here.
    Mad Dog_2
  • ajbeckerhead
    ajbeckerhead Member Posts: 6
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    Nice job fellas!! It reminds me of my house I grew up in Stone Ridge. It was from 1857. Not as cramped as what you were working in. Yes, we do need more talent in Hudson Valley to spur more competition!
    Mad Dog_2seized123
  • HomerJSmith
    HomerJSmith Member Posts: 2,511
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    I enjoyed the photos. I was great to see all those old houses built on solid foundations.
    Mad Dog_2
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,245
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    Vermont is awesome but The Hudson Valley is in a Dead Heat with it!   Shoot me an IM, well meet for Coffee ☕ at Stewart's!  Mad Dog 🐕 
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,108
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    Looks good, I would much rather see a rehab of an old house rather than demo.

    I always enjoyed the challenge of upgrades.

    Looks like a shallow well single pipe jet pump?
    Runs at 20-40 PSI?
    I see you have a check on the discharge, is there also one on the suction?
    Here they are all on the suction, all that I have seen.

    For PVC, does anyone else use the longer pressure rated couplings?

    I like the greater depth of bury, especially in 2". I use them also for 1 1/2".

    3" are about the same bury.
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,245
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    I have limited experience on wells, and my buddy doesn't know either. It's pushing 50 psi though. Seems like the foot valve i'dnt
    Holding...if there is one..This is maybe my third well pump and tank  I've installed...ots a Country thang...Mad Dog 🐕 
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,476
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    Nice of you to run up and help out. Great work as usual.
    Is that a temperature and pressure gauge on the first pic? Just a test set up?
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    Mad Dog_2
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,245
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    Thanks HR..means alot.. Tridicator I had with some junk I brought up. Went up in my banged up 2000 Dodge Durango   My friend made the material list, so it wasn't my first choice of materials in some cases, so it was a Git Er Dun!  Job.  I didn't plan in staying over, but I were able to hit a real supply house Monday Morning that had the relief valves and stuff.  Mad Dog 🐕 
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,959
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    Now do the electrical.
    Mad Dog_2
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,245
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    Ha ha...nope in this case his stepson took care of that!  Mad Dog 🐕 🤣 
  • CLamb
    CLamb Member Posts: 299
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    I have dies for threading brass pipes in my basement. I inherited them from my grandfather the builder.
    Mad Dog_2
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,245
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    Believe it or not, Plumbers Local #1 (Brooklyn & Queens only until the mid 90s merge) didn't allow soldered copper or all-thread rod until some time in early to late 1980s...Mad Dog 🐕 
    STEAM DOCTOR
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,839
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    @mattmia2

    I have to agree the wiring looks like that in all of upstate New York. It's Vermont wiring that's why. Yeah the electrical looks pretty bad.
    mattmia2
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,476
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    Mad Dog_2 said:
    Believe it or not, Plumbers Local #1 (Brooklyn & Queens only until the mid 90s merge) didn't allow soldered copper or all-thread rod until some time in early to late 1980s...Mad Dog 🐕 
    Pex wasn’t approved in California until 2009
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,245
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    PEX is STILL not approved for Domestic Water in NYC...not even for "ones and twos" one an two family's, like when PVC was finally allowed...Any year now, they HAVE TO!  Legal for Heating/cooling only....kinda silly at this juncture in time...Mad Dog 🐕 
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,839
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    NYC probably is not as bad as MA. Every plumbing and gas fitting product pipe equipment or fitting is supposed to be MA approved before you can install it and listed on their website. This gets ignored a lot other than the actual equipment.

    Anyone who ever read a boiler manual there is always something in it about "if installed in Massachusetts"
    Mad Dog_2
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,245
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    Yes...You don't see it as much, but always saw "Approved by The New York City Board of Standards and Appeals"  on all kinds of construction products.  I know Massachusetts is very specially segregated within trades:  Gas Fitter, Pipe Fitter, Plumber, Steamfitter, Tin Knocker."  Most of NYS don't even have a license requirement for heating!   Nope...NYC and pockets here and there.  Is PHCC big in Massachusetts,  Ed?  Mad Dog 🐕 
  • PC7060
    PC7060 Member Posts: 1,240
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    Mad Dog_2 said:
    Believe it or not, Plumbers Local #1 (Brooklyn & Queens only until the mid 90s merge) didn't allow soldered copper or all-thread rod until some time in early to late 1980s...Mad Dog 🐕 
    No copper allowed until what, 40 years, after the rest of the country. What was used before then? Iron pipe?  :s
    ChrisJ
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,245
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    Wrought galvanized Iron and before that wiped lead.  When I started on Deck jobs in NYC in 1986, anyone,  plumber or steamfitter, seen using a tape measure got it taken and thrown across the floor or off the building!  Rough guys.ha ha 😂 🤣 😆.   I got grief because I had an 8 foot Lufkin instead of a 6 footer.  In the mid 1990s this nice enough out of towner (traveler) from another U.A. Local, walked on the job with a Carpenters tool belt with all the pouches and that.  They confiscated it....Different times...Mad Dog 🐕 
    PC7060
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,245
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    And.. If you didn't go to the bar on payday for a liquid lunch, you weren't to be trusted!  True...Now they send spies in from the GC to rat 🐀 out the guys having a cold beer 🍺 with their Hamburger 🍔...The Pendulum swings too far one way....then the other...Mad Dog 🐕 
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,959
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    And you wonder why you have trouble recruiting people.
    Mad Dog_2
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,108
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    Mad Dog, all the facts you have stated are reasons why many people see Unions in a bad light.

    Can you tell us why a retractable tape measure was less efficient than a folding rule?

    What were the fears for human health of using copper pipe?

    And what were the advantages of using galv water lines....other than increased labor time on the job?

    The same for unthreaded hanger rod, did you have to thread the ends for nuts etc.?
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,245
    edited July 2023
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    Jugne...I guess you don't get my sense of humor yet....you're not alone. Ha ha 😂 🤣 😆  I was simply remarking on "The Way it was...." I've used a tape and a Stick rule for many, many years for obvious reason.  You can't beat a Stick rule when you're doing very precise measurements, especially large diameter screw pipe.  You'll never catch me wearing a Carpenters Belt though! 

    Unions...Yes the ones who gave us The Weekend and A guaranteed pay rate....an 8 hour day...  Unions have sometimes ruined a good thing like the United Auto Workers before it all went bust. Fighting for threaded rod and being against copper was foolish and went be the wayside. 

    All others things being equal, I've been Union, Non Union, a Non Union Contractor. I've seen a few Hack Union men and plenty of excellent non Union men...If you're going to be a working man (not a business owner) your best bet is Union Membership.  You can't  beat the training programs, Rate of Pay, Benefits, Holiday and Vacation Pay, Health Benefits and safer working conditions.  

    Unions have taken a hit and lost ground, no doubt,  but they are regrouping and streamlining their game.  Mad Dog 🐕 
    CLamb
  • FStephenMasek
    FStephenMasek Member Posts: 88
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    Looks nice, and glad you were able to see that old place. Which guy is you?
    Author of Illustrated Practical Asbestos: For Consultants, Contractors, Property Managers & Regulators
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,245
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    Gary has about 20 years on  me, a Shock of hair and I have about 4 inches & 100 lbs on him!   He's a Retired Master Carpenter and Stairbuilder.  He worked for a super exclusive Hudson Valley Builder/ restorer.  They still pull him off the retired reserves when they have a really tough one.  He was my helper.  Mad Dog 🐕 
    Gilgo