EDR for a Keystone Radiator, Not in book

Mark_72

Need a little help finding the EDR for some Keystone rads . Any help would be greatly appreciated.

ethicalpaul

Pics?

Mark_72

ethicalpaul

I'd just pick a similar looking one of roughly the same size. It will be close enough. Given that the sq. ft of steam value is dramatically over-padded with about 30% extra, definitely round down.

What a beauty by the way

Mark_72

tim smith

I would go off the rococco 3 column same height. I would feel pretty comfortable with that. Whats up with the 2 valves and steam vent???

Steamhead

Those look like standard column radiators. Measure the distance between the center of one section and the center of the next one. If it's 2-1/2", they're standard, and you can use any column rad chart such as American Rococo or Peerless, or U.S. Radiator Florentine or Triton.

If the measurement is 2-11/16, 3" or 3-1/4", they might be re-branded H.B. Smith radiators.

Charts for all these rads are in @DanHolohan 's book "E.D.R.".

random12345

@Mark_72 Could you please post a few more pictures of any writing you find? Particularly on the top and bottom tappings on either side. It looks like that says "Assyrian Waten" but I can't be sure. Maybe your other radiators will be more legible?

random12345

@Mark_72 Philadelphia Hardware and Malleable Iron Works Inc. is the manufacturer. Credit goes to Ecorad for helping me figure this out: https://ecorad.ca/en/product/assyrian-cast-iron-radiator-electric/
Here is the only catalog I could find from 1905 that contains the Assyrian: https://archive.org/details/PhiladelphiaHardwareAndMalleableIronWorksIncCCA90B887/page/n9/mode/2up
The silver rad in the 4th picture down is a Keystone: https://archive.org/details/PhiladelphiaHardwareAndMalleableIronWorksIncCCA90B887/page/n3/mode/2up Ratings are on the next page.
Little bit of history about Thomas Devlin who became the owner of the company: files.usgwarchives.net/pa/philadelphia/bios/history/devlin-t.txt
@Erin Holohan Haskell I think the above catalog can go into the Heating Museum. It is copyright-free.

Steamhead

Interesting. Their Assyrian and Penn radiators had 3-inch section spacing, similar to some H.B. Smith models, but the Keystone and Doric ones used the standard 2-1/2-inch spacing.

This means the Assyrian and Penn have higher EDR ratings than the usual 3-column rads.

If you're sizing a replacement boiler, this difference can come back to bite you.

Steamhead

tim smith said:

I would go off the rococco 3 column same height. I would feel pretty comfortable with that. Whats up with the 2 valves and steam vent???

This is a 2-pipe air-vent system.

Mark_72

Steamhead said:

Interesting. Their Assyrian and Penn radiators had 3-inch section spacing, similar to some H.B. Smith models, but the Keystone and Doric ones used the standard 2-1/2-inch spacing.

This means the Assyrian and Penn have higher EDR ratings than the usual 3-column rads.

If you're sizing a replacement boiler, this difference can come back to bite you.

I am doing just that. I went off the J.L. Mott 1906. House built in 1906. I came up with 415.75 sq ft and the boiler to be replaced is 671 sq ft so you once again are wright, it will come back and bite me. So I'll look into the links above and see what I have center to center of section. Any help is always accepted. Thanks

mattmia2

Make sure your near boiler piping and venting and insulation are right so that it will be balanced and heat evenly even if you are a little low on the boiler output.

Mark_72

random12345 said:

@Mark_72 Philadelphia Hardware and Malleable Iron Works Inc. is the manufacturer. Credit goes to Ecorad for helping me figure this out: https://ecorad.ca/en/product/assyrian-cast-iron-radiator-electric/
Here is the only catalog I could find from 1905 that contains the Assyrian: https://archive.org/details/PhiladelphiaHardwareAndMalleableIronWorksIncCCA90B887/page/n9/mode/2up
The silver rad in the 4th picture down is a Keystone: https://archive.org/details/PhiladelphiaHardwareAndMalleableIronWorksIncCCA90B887/page/n3/mode/2up Ratings are on the next page.
Little bit of history about Thomas Devlin who became the owner of the company: files.usgwarchives.net/pa/philadelphia/bios/history/devlin-t.txt
@Erin Holohan Haskell I think the above catalog can go into the Heating Museum. It is copyright-free.

Thank you . The home owner will like to know the history of the rads

ethicalpaul

Mark_72 said:

Steamhead said:

Interesting. Their Assyrian and Penn radiators had 3-inch section spacing, similar to some H.B. Smith models, but the Keystone and Doric ones used the standard 2-1/2-inch spacing.

This means the Assyrian and Penn have higher EDR ratings than the usual 3-column rads.

If you're sizing a replacement boiler, this difference can come back to bite you.

I am doing just that. I went off the J.L. Mott 1906. House built in 1906. I came up with 415.75 sq ft and the boiler to be replaced is 671 sq ft so you once again are wright, it will come back and bite me. So I'll look into the links above and see what I have center to center of section. Any help is always accepted. Thanks

Wait, what exactly bit you? Are you assuming the boiler to be replaced was the right size? Don't do that.

ethicalpaul

Steamhead said:

Interesting. Their Assyrian and Penn radiators had 3-inch section spacing, similar to some H.B. Smith models, but the Keystone and Doric ones used the standard 2-1/2-inch spacing.

This means the Assyrian and Penn have higher EDR ratings than the usual 3-column rads.

If you're sizing a replacement boiler, this difference can come back to bite you.

Can you share what the difference in EDR is between these two examples?

random12345

@ethicalpaul American Radiator Company Rococo 3 column: Assyrian Rad:The EDR difference is more significant for the taller heights apparently. Seven 38" 14 section rads measured at 5 sq ft/section instead of 6 would result in an EDR undersizing of nearly 100 sq ft. That could be problem.

Mark_72

ethicalpaul said:

Mark_72 said:

Steamhead said:

Interesting. Their Assyrian and Penn radiators had 3-inch section spacing, similar to some H.B. Smith models, but the Keystone and Doric ones used the standard 2-1/2-inch spacing.

This means the Assyrian and Penn have higher EDR ratings than the usual 3-column rads.

If you're sizing a replacement boiler, this difference can come back to bite you.

I am doing just that. I went off the J.L. Mott 1906. House built in 1906. I came up with 415.75 sq ft and the boiler to be replaced is 671 sq ft so you once again are wright, it will come back and bite me. So I'll look into the links above and see what I have center to center of section. Any help is always accepted. Thanks

Wait, what exactly bit you? Are you assuming the boiler to be replaced was the right size? Don't do that.

Not assuming , I'm sizing . What is biting me is I sized to the 1906 J.L Mott chart and now i find that the rads have a different rating then Mott. So my sq. ft . edr has changed from 415.75 sq. ft. to 492.25 sq.ft.. If I stuck to Motts chart it would had been undersized.

ethicalpaul

OK thanks, I saw you said "the boiler to be replaced is 671" so I thought you were comparing the size of the old boiler.

But it wouldn't have been undersized. It would have taken away some of the ridiculously large 30% or 33% "pickup factor".