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DZR Brasss

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STEAM DOCTOR
STEAM DOCTOR Member Posts: 2,041
edited May 2023 in THE MAIN WALL
Hi. Was looking through fittings on Supplyhouse and noticed DZR brass. Are those different then "regular" brass fittings? Once we are on the topic, can someone enlighten the uninformed (myself in particular) about the different types of brass fittings/piping and their applications? Much appreciated. My particular application,is 1" FIP- 3/4" press brass fittings. To be used when installing 75 gallon water heaters. Thanks in advance to all. 
Mad Dog_2

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  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,479
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    Dezincified brass it is an alloy that has the zinc removed

    certain water conditions were causing pinholes in common yellow brass fittings, so they changed the mix a bit

    A few lawsuits still linger out there regarding brass pinholes, mostly the pex fittings

    Lead % has been changed in brass used for potable water, see it listed as LL low lead, or LF lead free. Most brass companies are switching to low lead for potable and hydronic, pneumatic, etc

    machinery has to be retooled when you switch to machining LL, chips segregated for recycling

    Lead acts as a bit of a lubricant, removing it causes tooling to bind, over-heat…
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    Mad Dog_2STEAM DOCTOR
  • STEAM DOCTOR
    STEAM DOCTOR Member Posts: 2,041
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    Thanks @hot_rod. Need to study what you said a bit and try to digest. For my application, 75 gallon water heaters, these fittings are advisable? 
  • Larry Weingarten
    Larry Weingarten Member Posts: 3,389
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    Hi, I like to use a plastic lined steel nipple in the tank, and then transition to the piping. This helps prevent any damage to the tank. In the West, flex connectors are commonly used in part because of earthquakes. Falcon makes stainless flex lines at least up to two inch. This gives both a union and the ability to make a heat trap. Then I use whatever stainless, brass or copper fittings are needed to change size … if needed. B)

    Yours, Larry
    Mad Dog_2
  • STEAM DOCTOR
    STEAM DOCTOR Member Posts: 2,041
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    Thanks. Flex is pretty uncommon in my part of the world. Good old NYC area  Usually reserved for handymen. Not criticizing. Just saying.Most water heaters that I have seen, come with plastic lined nipples already installed. Gas atmospheric, typically 75 gallon and down, are what I deal with. 
    Mad Dog_2
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,247
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    I miss the High Qaulity Red Brass everything was made of.  Lasted forever.  85% Copper 15% Zinc.  Yellow brass is eh...The new Lead Free and LL products are much more difficult to soft solder.  The solder does not suck in,  adhere as well and fully penetrate and spread the solder.  Even the finest silver bearing solders Like Silvabrite, Taramet, Harris and Wolverine struggle.  We usually have to pre-tin large diameter fittings, especially the ball valves.  It is what it is.  Mad Dog 🐕 
    PC7060clammyCTOilHeat
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,247
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    The cheap imported brands are even worse,  similar to Muntz metal and Pot metal....real junk.  Mad Dog  🐕 
    kcoppPC7060
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,479
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    The nippler Larry mentioned are often heat trapper also, a check ball or flapper inside.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • clammy
    clammy Member Posts: 3,114
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    The crappy brass is close to impossible to properly sweat ,one or two old timers I know swore they would never buy into a press fittings but after multi attempts of soldering on lead free valves given in and went press . I also have switched and use mostly press valves even though there all junk in my eyes but it super quick and no flame and I get to charge way more being everything is expensive but that’s cool more money more money more money .
    I think making the valves impossible to solder was a way to get everybody on board w press crap ,even though its all recycled it s really just throw away fittings and valves keeps some body working and producing junk the name of the game . Peace and good luck clammy
    R.A. Calmbacher L.L.C. HVAC
    NJ Master HVAC Lic.
    Mahwah, NJ
    Specializing in steam and hydronic heating
    Mad Dog_2
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,479
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    One method that helps soldering the low lead brass, is to heat the tube as you heat the brass fitting.
    The LL brass seems to expand more and doesn’t conduct heat to the copper tube as well.
    So bring the tube and fitting up to temperature evenly.

    Lead free solder and water soluble fluxes add even more challenge. The new flux tends to burn or blacken close to the melting point of no lead solder. So temperature control is more critical.

    As long as I don’t see you using push type gripper fittings😳
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    Larry WeingartenMad Dog_2
  • dko
    dko Member Posts: 644
    edited May 2023
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    This is why sterling solder now outsells 95/5. Lowest melting temperature and great flow, much easier to work with on these new valves. many seem to think it contains silver, but it's actually selenium.
    Mad Dog_2
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,247
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    The 3 best Solders that I use are Taramet Sterling, Silvabrite and Wolverine brass.  Mad Dog  🐕 
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,920
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    My favorite solder for a few years now is Bridgit.


    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,479
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    You can still find 50-50 in some hardware stores, I use it on hydronics.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,920
    edited May 2023
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    hot_rod said:

    You can still find 50-50 in some hardware stores, I use it on hydronics.

    I've never heard of 50-50?
    40-60 is the most common for electronics, 37-63 is another common one.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • dko
    dko Member Posts: 644
    edited May 2023
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    ChrisJ said:

    My favorite solder for a few years now is Bridgit.



    are you also using bridgit flux?
    I only recently brought in both the solder and flux
    sold only a handful but haven't any feedback yet.

    50/50 is fairly standard, still sell plenty of them. hydronic piping mainly, but dwv copper is still selling for repairs and there are plenty of guys still piping 3 compartment sinks in dwv copper.

    also still selling heaps of 50/50 lead bars for lead pans.

    ChrisJ
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,920
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    dko said:

    ChrisJ said:

    My favorite solder for a few years now is Bridgit.



    are you also using bridgit flux?
    I only recently brought in both the solder and flux
    sold only a handful but haven't any feedback yet.

    50/50 is fairly standard, still sell plenty of them. hydronic piping mainly, but dwv copper is still selling for repairs and there are plenty of guys still piping 3 compartment sinks in dwv copper.

    also still selling heaps of 50/50 lead bars for lead pans.

    No, I didn't know there was flux.
    I've been using Oatey 95 tinning flux lately.

    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 4,965
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    Stay Brite #8 for all my Soft Solder Needs!