This Friday's case, The case of the high conductivity

RayWohlfarth

The customer sent the water treatment company report for the two steam boilers we sold. The report showed high levels of conductivity in the condensate water, which indicates carryover. The reading was 800 micromhos and should be below 25. The report further said carryover lowers the efficiency and life of the boiler. The treatment report suggested that my boilers (vertical firetube) were the problem. I knew the piping was large enough and verified the steam velocity was low. The question was why was the conductivity high in the condensate?
I'll let you ponder this and will let you know on Friday when the newest video is posted.
Thanks
Ray

ethicalpaul

The customer took the water for testing out of the boiler drain instead of out of the condensate return line is my guess.

mattmia2

Is this the one where the maintenance guy was pissing in the boiler?

JUGHNE

Copper returns?

ChrisJ

JUGHNE said:

Copper returns?

I have copper returns and my wet return TDS measures 1-2 PPM which I consider a mixture of rust and error in the cheap TDS meter I'm using.

I'd guess several things.
Either Paul's guess.
Or there's an issue with the water quality causing carry over.

Or, they are letting pressure build during low demand and then a sudden large demand is pulling excessive flow out of the boiler, and water with it.

retiredguy

I have 3 possible ideas that may have contributed to the problem. Each possible item could have been used alone or in conjunction with one or both of the others. Item #1) The customers make-up water was coming from wells that produced very hard water. #2) The customer was using soft water for his make-up water. #3) The customer was not using the correct amount of boiler treatment chemicals. High carryover could have resulted in the very high amounts of fresh water make-up which would have added to the 3 items above. High carryover is caused by many possible problems including fluctuating steam loads.

When you say "vertical tube boilers" if you mean Fultons, I always had a problem with carryover when using these boilers. I will be anxious to hear the explanation for the cause of the problem you wrote about.

ttekushan_3

External source of return condensate contamination? Maybe from leaking underground return or condensate line accidentally used as a drain. 

True story: vent pipes from backflow preventers we’re found to be dripped into floor level steam heating dry return main way out on the shop floor. It wasn’t easy to see and went undetected until one started dripping and the boiler feed tank started slowly taking on water. Fortunately it was fresh water, but still…

mattmia2

ttekushan_3 said:

External source of return condensate contamination? Maybe from leaking underground return or condensate line accidentally used as a drain. 

that was my actual thought but i couldn't see how it could happen. maybe buried returns that are taking on groundwater.

i suppose some feed pump problem could be causing it to flood sometimes. or even better, a vent problem on the tank and maybe a bad check valve is sucking water back out of the boiler in to the tank. Actually we don't know there is a tank and pump.


Oh, Oh, i know, it is there are 2 boilers, something isn't right between the condensate connection between them or the steam supply to them so when one is off it floods and dumps in to the return.

RayWohlfarth

Well this one had some interesting answers. The cause of the elevated conductivity was the high level spill traps on each boiler. The trap discharge was piped back to the boiler feed tank. The water treatment tech was trying to blame the boiler design angry he didn’t get the boiler sale Thanks for your expertise

https://youtube.com/watch?v=TZX2ik7ywXg

EdTheHeaterMan

You got to love it when your are right and the blow hard (AH) is wrong. Nice story Ray

random12345

Very interesting. I will be watching more.

RayWohlfarth

@EdTheHeaterMan it did feel good Thanks
@random12345 thanks I appreciate it