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20 Year old Munchkin, efficient house, looking for next steps

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stuartf
stuartf Member, Email Confirmation Posts: 6
This is a 20 year old house, I use 400 therms of natural gas to heat it for the year, heating zone 5. Heat calculation yields a 14K BTU requirement, Manual J close to 24K BTU. Currently with an 80k BTU Munchkin (formerly it also heated the adjacent half of a side by side duplex).

I have had assessment by air to air heat pump installers and have reviewed the state of air to water. The latter seem not yet ready for the 0 degree F design temperature and would require additional emitters (currently fin tubes that are designed for 150 degree water. The lowest level has in slab heat, wonderful.

Air to air also seems to fall short and we really like the hot water heat. If i had my way I would hold off and wait for the technology (and installer competence and manufacturer support) to develop. But the Munchkin makes noise on startup, service guy says it looks OK but I don't want it to go out in the middle of Winter.

I would install a new gas boiler, with the understanding that it 5-10 years I might replace it. But I cannot find a small enough boiler for the heating load, even those with a 10:1 turn down.

Suggestions??

Comments

  • GGross
    GGross Member Posts: 1,065
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    Viessmann smallest US model B1HE-85 turns down to 8,500 btu/hr
    Lochinvar KHB055N Turns down to 8,300 btu/hr

    Both are quality boilers, I am partial to Viessmann but purchase something your installer has confidence in, and is able to get parts for quickly
  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 4,439
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  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,251
    edited May 2023
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    I like the Lochinvar also, 50 or 80,000 may be the ticket 

    The Munchkin lasted 20 years, no reason the more refined mod cons wont go 15 or more, maybe 20 years.

    I wonder what will happen to the boiler part of viessmann with the Carrier deal? Carrier is not known for boiler manufacturing. The push will be towards heat pumps, I predict.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    Robert O'Brien
  • GGross
    GGross Member Posts: 1,065
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    @hot_rod
    Bob we worry about this every day. after initially being pretty upset about it I have come to the realization that this ship may have been sailing with or without Carrier. 70% of Viessmann climate solutions business is already heat pumps without Carrier involved. the US market makes up only 6% of their business, and they do not sell their heat pumps in the US market. Germany will not have any new gas installations starting next year, UK could follow suit (if they haven't already, I don't always stay up to the date) Viessmann was not able to produce their own electric boiler. Viessmann as a company (without Carrier involved) pledged a ton of money toward electrifying Europe after the Russians bombed their building in Kyiv, to get Europe off of Russian fuel.

    The good news is that (at least currently) German regulators say Carrier cannot do any layoffs for 3-years, must maintain all Viessmann manufacturing facilities for 3 years, and must maintain the Viessmann HQ in Allendorf for at least 10 years. The article I read was unclear as to whether that was just the German facilities, or if it included Viessmann CS worldwide operations. While I am no fan of Carrier, I do not think that they will intentionally kneecap the boiler business by ceasing parts distribution etc.
    WMno57
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,251
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    Good to heat they have stipulations in the contract

    more often than  not business decisions are based on profitability and pleasing the shareholders 
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    GGross
  • random12345
    random12345 Member Posts: 469
    edited May 2023
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    I'm wondering if a small cast iron gas hot water boiler might make more sense than one of the fancier new ones? I'm not an installer, so I'm curious as well about this, but just in terms of total cost of ownership, would that be less expensive? I'm seeing a few options from WM and Burnham that have a net rating of 27-28k btu. @stuartf Is chimney venting not available?

  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 5,723
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    hot_rod said:

    Good to heat they have stipulations in the contract

    more often than  not business decisions are based on profitability and pleasing the shareholders 

    A company tries to make money and do what its owners demand? Isn't this called "capitalism"?
    NJ Steam Homeowner. See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el
  • tim smith
    tim smith Member Posts: 2,765
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    the floor or wall mount 055 lochinvar khb or whb dials down to about 8.3 mbh input. Would meet it ok.
    just a thought
    Tim
  • dullknife1
    dullknife1 Member Posts: 58
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    Through in a 50 gallon hot water heater , put a circulator on it and come back in 5 yrs when you know what you want 
  • fenkel
    fenkel Member Posts: 162
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    why not look at an electric boiler?
  • WMno57
    WMno57 Member Posts: 1,330
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    hot_rod said:

    Good to heat they have stipulations in the contract

    more often than  not business decisions are based on profitability and pleasing the shareholders 

    A company tries to make money and do what its owners demand? Isn't this called "capitalism"?
    Did you guys hear the joke about the the Socialist, the Environmentalist, the Capitalist/Libertarian? They walk into a bar and manage to get along because they avoid politics and talk about hydronics. :D
    I would love to have a beer with you guys someday. My Chevron stock has done well, so first round is on me.
    I DIY.
    ethicalpaulRich_49
  • Larry Weingarten
    Larry Weingarten Member Posts: 3,327
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    One word. Wetstock! 😇

    Yours, Larry
    GGross