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Recognize these valves?

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tim smith
tim smith Member Posts: 2,770
Hate to get rid of these great valves.
Any ideas on rebuilding them? Packing etc?
Mad Dog_2

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  • PC7060
    PC7060 Member Posts: 1,198
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    Pictures?
    HomerJSmithMad Dog_2
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,197
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    What valves, Tim?  Invisible valves?  Ha ha.  Mad Dog
    EdTheHeaterMan
  • tim smith
    tim smith Member Posts: 2,770
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    Whoops, can't you see them. They are the very special vapor invisible valves.
    uno momento and will upload.
    EdTheHeaterMan
  • tim smith
    tim smith Member Posts: 2,770
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  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,840
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    The name is on the side though I can't quite make it out. They are special metering valves for a vapor system, you can't just replace them with standard steam valves and expect your system to work properly.
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,840
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    What does the top of the one that is missing the handle and stop plate say?
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 23,544
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    I expect they can be rebuilt. They may or may not have packing... but I've always operated on the theory with older things like that that if they were put together, they will come apart without damage (unlike a lot of modern stuff) and then you can see what you have.

    Very much worth the effort.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    mattmia2
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 16,944
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    These are Sylphon valves. The Warren Webster company owned Sylphon for a while, so I'll bet this is a Webster Vapor system.

    @tim smith , is there any other Webster hardware on this system, such as radiator traps, F&T traps, boiler return trap etc?
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
    mattmia2Mad Dog_2reggi
  • tim smith
    tim smith Member Posts: 2,770
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    Frank, I am verifying the trap types, I cant find my note where I wrote them down. Will have info shortly. No boiler return trap as the boiler has been replaced and repiped over last decade or so.
    Thanks for all the input guys.
    Tim
    Mad Dog_2
  • Gordo
    Gordo Member Posts: 857
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    @tim smith : The first picture you posted I can see on the bonnet top "Webster" and can make out "Camden NJ". On the body, the cursive "Slyphon" logo can just be made out.
    That was Webster's newer type of so-called packless.
    The second picture is an older type & I think that may be left-over stock from before Slyphon was bought by Webster, as Steamhead alluded to.
    Both are problematic to rebuild, esp the older one.
    I would look into talking with Woody Tunstall about rebuild kits for those valves.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/all-steamed-up-inc
    Mad Dog_2reggi
  • tim smith
    tim smith Member Posts: 2,770
    edited April 2023
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    Frank and Gordo, they are Warren Webster traps also. Matt, one of the valves which is like most are Warren Webster but not the one with the graduated holes in top plate like above. But same physical design except for plate on top.
    Mad Dog_2
  • tim smith
    tim smith Member Posts: 2,770
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    mattmia2
  • tim smith
    tim smith Member Posts: 2,770
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    Above are photos of valve and traps present.
  • reggi
    reggi Member Posts: 522
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    @tim smith   Are they still functional ?
    One way to get familiar something you know nothing about is to ask a really smart person a really stupid question
  • reggi
    reggi Member Posts: 522
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    Gordo said:
    @tim smith : The first picture you posted I can see on the bonnet top "Webster" and can make out "Camden NJ". On the body, the cursive "Slyphon" logo can just be made out. That was Webster's newer type of so-called packless. The second picture is an older type & I think that may be left-over stock from before Slyphon was bought by Webster, as Steamhead alluded to. Both are problematic to rebuild, esp the older one. I would look into talking with Woody Tunstall about rebuild kits for those valves.
    We'll take a shot ( all from the same system)

    This would be the newer version 


    T

    The trap is a HB 512 , and the other pictures are the so named Webster Sylphon
    One way to get familiar something you know nothing about is to ask a really smart person a really stupid question
  • tim smith
    tim smith Member Posts: 2,770
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    Reggi, thanks so much for the details. Most are in some fashion operable. Some are so loose at the shaft that if open leak like a sieve. The idea of rebuilding them is not as much about savings as about their quality of mfr. just may not be feasible. I will check with Tunstall. If any other input, greatly appreciate. Seriously thinking switching to orifice plates too.
    Thanks again,
    Tim
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,090
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    These were from an old "Kelmac" system. They looked like orifice control for modulation but were still just in effect globe valves. I believe they were trying to get the look of high end control valves.

    They were leakers and mostly non operable.

    I replaced them with standard off the shelf valves.

    --Had to change spuds....some actually unscrewed
    --New valves are shorter than old, so something to account for.
    --Some old valves had 1/2" spuds with 3/4" steam riser...reducer on the riser.
    --Some old union nuts would strip out or not have enough threads to add the orifice plate.

    But the new valves are repairable and good for many years, tennents can close if needed and regulate to a certain degree.

    The traps were "Kelmac", empty or broken inside which further encouraged the orifice approach.

    Maybe $40 in materials for all of the above in 2015.

    What PSI is the system running at now?
  • tim smith
    tim smith Member Posts: 2,770
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    Jughne, when I arrived the system was at 5 psi, ugh. Lowered to 2 psi for now until we get a plan of attack on orificing and valves. Sounds like after orificing may be 2 psi any way from what I read. Maybe bit less. Bunch of things to take care of on this building. I think we have to wait of orificing until shut down as would really muck up the distribution while doing them unless we could do all at once. Not much longer although as weather gets bit warmer.

    Thanks again all
    Tim
  • tim smith
    tim smith Member Posts: 2,770
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    Side note, I just talked to Woody Tunstall, (nice guy) and ordered a complete replacement valve innards, stem and top for the old valves. Could not believe they make them. Told owner I would try one and see what they act and look like. Puts all new guts in them along with not worrying about the old seat. Looking forward to see what they do.
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,840
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    Probably should be more like 8 oz.
    reggi