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Dry Steam Is The Goal

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HeatingHelp
HeatingHelp Administrator Posts: 654
edited March 2023 in THE MAIN WALL
imageDry Steam Is The Goal

Steam quality is a measurement of the steam’s dryness. That means the steam should contain no more than 2% liquid water as it leaves the boiler because wet steam can’t hold much latent heat.

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Comments

  • sonnwof
    sonnwof Member Posts: 2
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    Great article - I always learn on your site... Maybe I'm misreading my P-H chart - but I don't quite get the statement, "94% quality steam at 200 psig contains the same latent-heat as 98% quality steam at 0 psig." To me, the pressure looks closer to 60 or 70 to achieve similar heat.
    MarjPinard
  • Labenaqui
    Labenaqui Member Posts: 72
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    Great summary! I vote for insulated, iron dropped headers.
  • Ogg
    Ogg Member Posts: 10
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    As far as manufacturers go, I had Utica Boiler’s factory engineer, along w the City inspector, visit my replacement install after my installer failed to follow the near boiler piping instructions that this factory engineer actually wrote. They failed (twice) to get the riser height above 24” using 2” copper instead of steel. The rep said the critical measurements and materials were just guidelines, even though the warranty said the instructions must be followed
    explicitly. I ended up re-piping the whole thing myself. There is zero support from manufacturers and inspectors for residential installs these days, it would seem. Caveat emptor.
    ethicalpaul
  • clammy
    clammy Member Posts: 3,115
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    Thanks , hopefully any one looking to get there boiler replaced will think twice and ask there installer if there boiler will be piped properly to enable the piping to do the job since the boiler cannot produce dry steam without a properly over sized or properly near boiler piping. Also Erin and possibly Mr H himself can post a article on the need to clean a newly installed boiler and why it should be done and why when a installation company does not include in there’s replacement quote your getting cheated . Not to rag but it s hard to sell a job when there’s zero that is apples to apples from piping it properly to flushing and cleaning not only the boiler but flushing and or replacement of ancient wet returns and all the stuff that always puts a jobs price higher, like installing or replacement of main vents and radiator vents . Sad to say just about every job I see all of these things where never done . It’s quite sad that most see no value and unfortunately usually end up w what they paid just a boiler maybe piped correctly that’s it and some 8 way or some thing tossed in ,there’s a big time difference in adding a chemical to really cleaning a boiler aside from it must be set to do so or it even more money . Most think ya clean it after your done and your on your way my personal experience is that aside from prior it always proper to return after a week or two to re do the whole process being alot of stuff comes returning to roost land some time s in replacement of poorly piped system it more then a few times which can lead to zero money made tough issue . I think aside from most being afraid they won’t get the job because of the price in reality there short changing not only the Customer but also the system performance .
    Most think really flushing a boiler of it mud and debrie is a non issue , first hand experiences say different I ve flushed and wanded boiler and changed the time it took for the boiler not only produce steam but also to reach the ends of the mains from 15 min to 4 or 5 minutes ,even had a home owner wonder and ask can I watch I said sure after she saw all the garbage that came out of the boiler and the difference it made she asked what where the guys doing who used to do my yearly service and supposedly cleaned my boiler I replied by picking up a wrench and tapped on the boiler to make some noise I said probably just this and looking at what was in the boiler and debris in the burner tray I stated they did nothing.
    What can you except when your given a flat rate for yearly service maintenance just that a quick in and out and gran the check . It s quite sad it s like 100 years ago and northern carpet bagger pedaling snake oil w a minstrel in tow except it’s a
    franchise company w all sorts of service plans and levels of pricing according to your plan but steam boilers water side cleanings are never discussed . Truth be
    Sadly told .
    Peace and good luck clammy
    R.A. Calmbacher L.L.C. HVAC
    NJ Master HVAC Lic.
    Mahwah, NJ
    Specializing in steam and hydronic heating
    Mad Dog_2
  • Erin Holohan Haskell
    Erin Holohan Haskell Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 2,346
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    President
    HeatingHelp.com

  • clammy
    clammy Member Posts: 3,115
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    To bad every home owner only reads this after the work is done but first off the contractors should already know this sadly most don’t know and sadly some don’t care . It would be great if ever boiler manufacture included this in there website literature w caption as required reading before purchasing . Maybe after reading customers would realize the difference between real price and getting it done right the first time big price difference between ones that care about what there doing and doing it right to a drive by install
    Peace and good luck clammy
    R.A. Calmbacher L.L.C. HVAC
    NJ Master HVAC Lic.
    Mahwah, NJ
    Specializing in steam and hydronic heating
    Mad Dog_2
  • MarkMurf
    MarkMurf Member Posts: 35
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    "Can't make those boiler risers too big. Can't have too many of them. Never reduce pipe size from the tapping on the boiler. Steam header Can't be too big. Can't have too many blow downs." The old man's instructions still ring in my ears with every pull on the four footer. I was on a larger steam boiler replacement with three local gas company techs who were redoing the gas main. My 3' & 4' aluminum pipe wrenches were standing in the corner of the boiler room . The one old timer was down on his knees working. The two younger guys were standing, watching. I was going to and from when the old timer said," Go ahead ask him." The old timer gave me a smirk. "Go ahead ask him." Sheepishly, one of them asked, pointing to the four-footer,"Do you really use that thing ?" Ha ha ! "Sure do. And when I was your age, they were made of iron." EI YEI YEI ! !
    Mad Dog_2
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,251
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    I remember the First and only 48" Ridgid Steel Pipe Wrench I bought two repipe my 130 yr old church's new WM steam boiler. Everyone thought I was crazy because I ONLY charged them Materials..NO LABOR. Everyone said I should put the Pipe Wrench on the Bill, but I refused. I LOVE that wrench. Aluminum Wrenches are ok for the initial light pulls and strokes, but Big Obama (YES WE CAN!!!!!) as I nicknamed him,
    was the closer..With Iron wrenches, the heavier weight exerts greater torque when killin' it. The Aluminums require more Human Muscle - not crazy about em. Also, Aluminums don't hold up long with a Fulcrum pipe lever or Hickey on the wrench end. They'll bend and a I snapped one once. When I was 19 working for the Great GF Sheridan in Rockefeller Center, Jimmy O'Brien (My Irish Born Mentor) had me use a 6 foot Stillson and a 8 foot Chain tongs to make up 10 and 12" Screw pipe. I'm so glad I got that training. Mad Dog
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,251
    edited March 2023
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    Clamster, you are 100% Right. Lay people, when you are explaining to them, how hacks undercut the legit guys, will often say: "....yeah..but then you get to fix their screw ups!!!! Rarely True, I have found. First of all, that guy who cut me off at the knees stealing a boiler job for less than his Cost (clueless on their C.O.D.B) two times, made me be late on my mortgage or kids tuition...a lose-lose situation. I found that when I had Triple Crown P & H full time for those 12 years, many people were A) Are Not fans of yours because you're price is say $1000 bucks more than everyone else..companies that are in business 100 years (they got that big credibility asset..."...well they've been in town 100 hundred years... they must be doing something right!!!" NOPE, they've been doing sub-par work for 100 years..you've just gotten used to mediocore. Furthermore, Even the people that really liked you and believed your job was going to be superior, feel VERY stupid when they get screwed and will RARELY want to face you out of embarassment and I told you so...In almost 40 years, I've had less than a handful of people who had the decency and humility to call me up and admit they made a mistake. They are afraid your'e going to whack em over the head, but I have always been understanding and easy on them. They suffered enough. Mad Dog
  • Anthony Menafro
    Anthony Menafro Member Posts: 198
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    Because of my respect for Dan's wisdom, I started ONLY piping my steam boilers with drop headers. They have been the driest steam and quietest systems that I have ever installed!!