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Commercial Boiler Code Question

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RayWohlfarth
RayWohlfarth Member Posts: 1,552
I have a customer looking to replace their low pressure steam boilers. My competition is saying a chimney liner is required by code because it's an old brick chimney. The chimney looks to be in good condition. Do you know of a code that says a linear must be used? I have looked through every code manual I have and have found nothing that requires it.
Thanks in advance.
Ray Wohlfarth
Boiler Lessons

Comments

  • MikeGordon
    MikeGordon Member Posts: 10
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    Hello Ray;

    I believe the International Mechanical Code (IMC) requires all masonry chimneys to be lined. As an example, please take a look at Section 801.16 of the current Michigan Mechanical Code. The Michigan Code, as are many local codes across the country, is modeled after the IMC.

    Link to exact code language is here: https://up.codes/viewer/michigan/mi-mechanical-code-2015/chapter/8/chimneys-and-vents#8 Scroll down to section 801.16

    In any event, even if it wasn't code required, in my opinion, a masonry liner is a REALLY good idea and best practice. I'd never recommend a modern gas/fuel oil boiler be operated with an unlined chimney.

    Hope this helps!


    Mike Gordon
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,833
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    When you say brick chimney does it have a clay liner? Or is it a really old unlined chimney? Inside chimney or outside? Oil or gas?
  • RayWohlfarth
    RayWohlfarth Member Posts: 1,552
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    Mike
    Thank you so much Thats what I was looking for
    Ray
    Ray Wohlfarth
    Boiler Lessons
  • RayWohlfarth
    RayWohlfarth Member Posts: 1,552
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    @EBEBRATT-Ed Its an old outdoor chimney
    Ray Wohlfarth
    Boiler Lessons
    Waher
  • jumper
    jumper Member Posts: 2,331
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    Can you measure velocity and temperature at top of chimney?
    If there is no chance for liquid to condense on surface.....
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,241
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    In NYS, Chimneys with a direct exposure to the outside elements and temperature require a "liner."  Some inspectors say an intact terracotta clay liner suffices. Others will tell you, they want a sleeved "slinky" inserted down the existing chimney and to the breech. Interior chimneys (very old hones usually) if terracotta-clay lined will suffice.  In general, I'm usually going to recommend and insulated stainless steel "slinky."  It can only help.  Mad Dog
  • RayWohlfarth
    RayWohlfarth Member Posts: 1,552
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    @jumper I would need a really big ladder and I would never be able to go that high LOL Thanks
    @Mad Dog_2 I think they are looking at a liner or sidewall venting. Thanks
    Ray Wohlfarth
    Boiler Lessons
  • jumper
    jumper Member Posts: 2,331
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    @jumper I would need a really big ladder and I would never be able to go that high LOL Thanks
    @Mad Dog_2 I think they are looking at a liner or sidewall venting. Thanks

    May be easier to abandon chimney. Blow exhaust through recuperator and new flue.
  • SteamingatMohawk
    SteamingatMohawk Member Posts: 1,025
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    Or rent a towable lift that can reach that high ($$$).
  • RayWohlfarth
    RayWohlfarth Member Posts: 1,552
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    @jumper Thats what I was thinking. Just sidewall vent the boilers through the wall next to the chimney
    @SteamingatMohawk Can't imagine the price for that
    Ray Wohlfarth
    Boiler Lessons
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 17,003
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    @jumper Thats what I was thinking. Just sidewall vent the boilers through the wall next to the chimney
    @SteamingatMohawk Can't imagine the price for that

    Sidewall venting might be easier said than done. That looks like a walkway next to the building, which IIRC would require a sidewall vent to be 7 feet above grade. At that level you're well into the first floor.

    Then there are the additional moving parts required for sidewall venting, which always break down in the middle of winter.

    A stainless-steel chimney liner has its merits.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
    Mad Dog_2
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,241
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    Venting the Rinnais, or any tankless or wall hung boiler is the worst part of the job.  Mad Dog
  • RayWohlfarth
    RayWohlfarth Member Posts: 1,552
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    @Steamhead Good points thanks
    @Mad Dog_2 The good part of this is I won't be installing it. I will just sell the boilers
    Ray Wohlfarth
    Boiler Lessons
  • SteamingatMohawk
    SteamingatMohawk Member Posts: 1,025
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    Hey, maybe you can get a good deal on one of those Chinese spy balloons for an afternoon. Bad joke...LOL
    SteamheadGGrossSolid_Fuel_Man
  • jumper
    jumper Member Posts: 2,331
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    Hey, maybe you can get a good deal on one of those Chinese spy balloons for an afternoon. Bad joke...LOL

    Good joke. Get a guy with a drone to measure temperature & air velocity at top of chimney. If there is enough draft CO2 blows right out without condensing or condensate blows out without eating bricks? I really don't know but I do know that there were unlined chimneys that last decades. Maybe soot protected the masonry then?

    Another thing to worry about is ice when boiler is too efficient. How much help is lining for that?
  • RayWohlfarth
    RayWohlfarth Member Posts: 1,552
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    @SteamingatMohawk LOL
    @jumper I was told this is over 80 years old.
    Ray Wohlfarth
    Boiler Lessons
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,472
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    A building like that may cry out for an engineered flue design. Or a design produced by the manufacturer of the vent material being considered. Selkirk for example.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 2,083
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    @RayWohlfarth

    Maybe look at a new chimney? Something like a Selkirk type exposed chimney. Abandon the old one.
    Might be more cost affective?
  • RayWohlfarth
    RayWohlfarth Member Posts: 1,552
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    @hot_rod Im leaving it up to the owner now. He hired an engineer and I believe they are going with a new flue liner
    @Intplm. The owner hired an engineer. Last I heard, they were installing a liner
    Ray Wohlfarth
    Boiler Lessons
    Intplm.
  • RayWohlfarth
    RayWohlfarth Member Posts: 1,552
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    Thanks everyone I do appreciate it
    Ray Wohlfarth
    Boiler Lessons