Palace Hotel in Silver City NM 1-pipe

guzzinerd

Now that I'm turning into a steam nerd I've started knocking on local doors looking for other boilers to look at.

This morning the folks at the local (est. 1882) Palace hotel let me look at their system.  It's looks like 1-pipe steam throughout the building.  It's being maintained by the local plumbers who messed mine up over the years so was not surprised to find that half of the radiators were cold.






The LWCO doesn't maintain the minimum water level so someone needs to add water to the tank before turning it on every morning.... otherwise it turns on and makes a huge racket.

I noticed the vents on the cold radiators were pointing down, others had been painted pretty heavily.. would that keep them from heating up?

Thanks 

Waher

Vents facing down will never open nor will they function if painted shut. Those look like Pierce Butler radiators out of Buffalo, NY.
https://heatinghelp.com/heating-museum/pierce-radiators/

Hap_Hazzard

Yes, when vents are inverted, the weight of the float closes the vent, so the radiator can't fill with steam. This is a common method for temporarily turning a radiator off if the radiator valve won't close.

The way that header is plumbed is guaranteed to force massive quantities of water into the main. Known as the "bullhead tee," this configuration is never good, and on a side-exit boiler, it's a disaster. They need to hire a steam man to repipe it this summer. It's wasting tons of money, probably not heating all their rooms effectively, and keeping folks up all night with the banging. It also makes the water level fluctuate, which will cause the boiler to crack before too long.

guzzinerd

Thank you @Hap_Hazzard @Waher, sending this info to the hotel

KC_Jones

1. Boiler is piped incorrectly. It has a colliding header.
2. as said vents facing down won't work
3. having to add water daily indicates some severe leaks that will destroy the boiler sooner than it should.
4. Pressure appears to be set far too high which can waste fuel. Of course if that monster boiler is oversized they may need to set it high to keep the boiler from cycling relentlessly. Not advocating for high pressure, just suggesting why people do what they do.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Can't add anything to what @KC_Jones & @Hap_Hazzard pointed out

JUGHNE

The radiator that is shown between the bedpost and curtains must have a drip/trap outlet as the supply

enters at the top.

This could be a combo 1 pipe 2 pipe system which will confuse some who do not look at the whole picture of installation. FWIW

guzzinerd

JUGHNE said:

The radiator that is shown between the bedpost and curtains must have a drip/trap outlet as the supply enters at the top. This could be a combo 1 pipe 2 pipe system which will confuse some who do not look at the whole picture of installation. FWIW

It's why I took a pic of it.  Was the only one i saw with the dual pipes.  It's the last rad on this line.

Steamhead

@guzzinerd , that system is newer than the hotel. Those radiators were first made in about 1926, and were in production until about 1938. The ones where I could see the name are Corto, made by American Radiator Co.

The air vents look like Airids, which were made by the same company about the same time. I wouldn't be surprised if some have failed.

And whoever installed that boiler wasted no time reading the manual.

This hotel clearly needs a Steam Man. Are the owners willing to hire a consultant?

guzzinerd

Steamhead said:

@guzzinerd , that system is newer than the hotel. Those radiators were first made in about 1926, and were in production until about 1938. The ones where I could see the name are Corto, made by American Radiator Co. The air vents look like Airids, which were made by the same company about the same time. I wouldn't be surprised if some have failed. And whoever installed that boiler wasted no time reading the manual. This hotel clearly needs a Steam Man. Are the owners willing to hire a consultant?

There are no steam men in our state that i know of.  I'll talk to the caretaker and ask if he can pass the message to the owner.

Thanks 

CLamb

From this article is sounds like the owner is going to scrap the steam heating system. “I loved what [Johnson] did to the hotel. The biggest change we’re going to make is we’re going to put in heating and cooling” for each room, Paul said.

guzzinerd

@clamb. It's a landmark building in the heart of Silver City that still needs a ton of attention.  Maybe he'll weigh the cost of correcting the cost of the existing system against starting from scratch again.

Hap_Hazzard

CLamb said:

“The biggest change we’re going to make is we’re going to put in heating and cooling” for each room, Paul said.

I can't help thinking about all the stories you see from time to time where a family gets killed by carbon monoxide from a room heater because someone inadvertently blocked the exhaust vent on the outside of the building.

guzzinerd

@Hap_Hazzard the new owner hasn't put a dime into the building since taking it over.  He doesn't even live in the area. The staff is gone except for one live-in caretaker.  The roof is leaking so badly only 8 of the rooms are rentable. 

I would think rectifying the still-functional boiler system would be cheaper than starting from scratch....but not having any steam men in the area might make that impossible.  

Steamhead

@Mad Dog_2 , might you be interested in a consulting trip?

Hap_Hazzard

guzzinerd said:

The new owner hasn't put a dime into the building since taking it over.  He doesn't even live in the area. The staff is gone except for one live-in caretaker.  The roof is leaking so badly only 8 of the rooms are rentable.

Sounds like Bad Times at the El Royale.

hot_rod

Is this the hotel project that Kurt from SWEI was involved in?  He is a contractor from that town that spent many hours here.

guzzinerd

hot_rod said:

Is this the hotel project that Kurt from SWEI was involved in?  He is a contractor from that town that spent many hours here.

No idea.  Maybe I'll look him up and ask 

hot_rod

guzzinerd said:

hot_rod said:

Is this the hotel project that Kurt from SWEI was involved in?  He is a contractor from that town that spent many hours here.

No idea.  Maybe I'll look him up and ask 

He is a very knowledgable energy guy, has some steam knowledge. Use the search button here, SWEI to view his past posts or run him down.

I spoke to him a week or so ago, so I know he is still breathing in and out🤔

Erin Holohan Haskell

@SWEI, are you out there?