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New York City gas

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pipers
pipers Member Posts: 21
Can pro press fittings for gas be used in nys / nyc
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  • Sully1266
    Sully1266 Member Posts: 13
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    Only black pipe or galvanized pipe that is threaded can be used in National Grid territory ( Brooklyn, parts of Queens and Staten Island) no flex hoses on any segments of house pipe no compression unions or dressers on any house pipe. Con Edison does gas service in Manhattan The Bronx and Northern Queens. I assume if National Grid is using these standards that it’s NYC DOB code for the whole city. Outside of the city is another story I have seen flex pipe up to 50 ft long used as house pipe and it passed local code enforcement.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,784
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    Sully1266 said:

    Only black pipe or galvanized pipe that is threaded can be used in National Grid territory ( Brooklyn, parts of Queens and Staten Island) no flex hoses on any segments of house pipe no compression unions or dressers on any house pipe. Con Edison does gas service in Manhattan The Bronx and Northern Queens. I assume if National Grid is using these standards that it’s NYC DOB code for the whole city. Outside of the city is another story I have seen flex pipe up to 50 ft long used as house pipe and it passed local code enforcement.


    You're required to install gas stoves and gas clothes dryers with rigid piping in NYC?

    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Sully1266
    Sully1266 Member Posts: 13
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    After a t- valve dryers and ranges are ok with flex’s any pipe before that valve is considered house pipe so all solid pipe no compression fittings or tubing or flex’s or brass or copper fittings 
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,622
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    MA at one time required stoves and dryers to be hard piped.....It was a problem so they went back to approved flex connectors.

    Propress -G is approved for gas....but only if your local code and gas co allow it. Again not approved in MA
  • pipers
    pipers Member Posts: 21
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    My question is in New York State/New York City can MegaPressG be used on gas so far the comments are saying NO
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 4,883
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    NYC has its own codes
    every county, municipality has there codes. 

    You need to narrow it down!
  • PC7060
    PC7060 Member Posts: 1,175
    edited February 2023
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    MA at one time required stoves and dryers to be hard piped.....It was a problem so they went back to approved flex connectors. Propress -G is approved for gas....but only if your local code and gas co allow it. Again not approved in MA
    I believe Viega took their ProPress-G fitting off the market in 2020 after the certification body increased the pressure testing levels. Since then NIBCO has released the PressG series which approved for a range of tubing options. The disclaimer in the spec sheet is consistent with @EBEBRATT-Ed previous comment “(Consult with the local Authority Having Jurisdiction prior to installation)”
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,106
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    NYC is its own code based off The ICC.  Generally, it much more stringent.  You can use up to a 6 foot gas flex for dyers. NYS code is ICC and is generally very similar from the Nassau/Queens border (where I am) out to Montauk Point, everything North of the Bronx/Westchester line.  Unfortunately, that stuff is accepted in most of the state.  I don't know why they allow it. 
    I'd never put that in my house.  Mad Dog
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,784
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    Mad Dog_2 said:

    NYC is its own code based off The ICC.  Generally, it much more stringent.  You can use up to a 6 foot gas flex for dyers. NYS code is ICC and is generally very similar from the Nassau/Queens border (where I am) out to Montauk Point, everything North of the Bronx/Westchester line.  Unfortunately, that stuff is accepted in most of the state.  I don't know why they allow it. 
    I'd never put that in my house.  Mad Dog

    What stuff?
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    kcoppMad Dog_2
  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 4,443
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    Mad Dog_2 said:

    NYC is its own code based off The ICC.  Generally, it much more stringent.  You can use up to a 6 foot gas flex for dyers. NYS code is ICC and is generally very similar from the Nassau/Queens border (where I am) out to Montauk Point, everything North of the Bronx/Westchester line.  Unfortunately, that stuff is accepted in most of the state.  I don't know why they allow it. 
    I'd never put that in my house.  Mad Dog

    Mega press G or CSST? I fully understand CSST...but not the Mega Press. Mega press is actually stronger at the fitting than threaded steel as you thin the piping when it is threaded at each joint.

    GGrossMad Dog_2
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,784
    edited February 2023
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    kcopp said:

    Mad Dog_2 said:

    NYC is its own code based off The ICC.  Generally, it much more stringent.  You can use up to a 6 foot gas flex for dyers. NYS code is ICC and is generally very similar from the Nassau/Queens border (where I am) out to Montauk Point, everything North of the Bronx/Westchester line.  Unfortunately, that stuff is accepted in most of the state.  I don't know why they allow it. 
    I'd never put that in my house.  Mad Dog

    Mega press G or CSST? I fully understand CSST...but not the Mega Press. Mega press is actually stronger at the fitting than threaded steel as you thin the piping when it is threaded at each joint.

    Is that what the salespeople say?
    I'm not saying it's not true, but based on this, it seems pretty irrelevant. Best I can tell this assumes screw joints. If it doesn't, I couldn't find anything suggesting to derate when using screw joints.



    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    Mad Dog_2
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 5,735
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    MA at one time required stoves and dryers to be hard piped.....It was a problem so they went back to approved flex connectors.

    Propress -G is approved for gas....but only if your local code and gas co allow it. Again not approved in MA

    Yeah they couldn't find enough 1 foot tall technicians to tighten up that last joint!
    NJ Steam Homeowner. See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el
    Mad Dog_2
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,784
    edited February 2023
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    MA at one time required stoves and dryers to be hard piped.....It was a problem so they went back to approved flex connectors.

    Propress -G is approved for gas....but only if your local code and gas co allow it. Again not approved in MA

    Yeah they couldn't find enough 1 foot tall technicians to tighten up that last joint!
    I don't like the idea of a 1/2" rigid gas line being connected directly to a fairly large but light appliance that isn't anchored in any manner.


    Many places require flexible appliance connectors to water heaters and such due to earth quakes.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    ethicalpaulMad Dog_2
  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 4,443
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    ChrisJ said:

    kcopp said:

    Mad Dog_2 said:

    NYC is its own code based off The ICC.  Generally, it much more stringent.  You can use up to a 6 foot gas flex for dyers. NYS code is ICC and is generally very similar from the Nassau/Queens border (where I am) out to Montauk Point, everything North of the Bronx/Westchester line.  Unfortunately, that stuff is accepted in most of the state.  I don't know why they allow it. 
    I'd never put that in my house.  Mad Dog

    Mega press G or CSST? I fully understand CSST...but not the Mega Press. Mega press is actually stronger at the fitting than threaded steel as you thin the piping when it is threaded at each joint.

    Is that what the salespeople say?
    I'm not saying it's not true, but based on this, it seems pretty irrelevant. Best I can tell this assumes screw joints. If it doesn't, I couldn't find anything suggesting to derate when using screw joints.



    Just practical experience.
    I have seen a 600# hydrostatic test done on a Mega press fitting... then wound around and having it still holds pressure.
    I have also seen gas meter assemblies hit w/ ice chunks off the side of a building smashing the meter, bending the piping and still have no breaks on the fittings.
    ChrisJMad Dog_2
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,106
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    Let me ask you a question fellas....I could be mistaken, but doesn't the Megapress work like the Pro-Pro press on Copper?  It crimps and bites down on the Pipe but the actual seal is made with an O-Ring??? Mad Dog
    bburdpecmsgpipers
  • CFH
    CFH Member Posts: 72
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    Press fitting are allowed in the NYS Fuel Gas Code. If you do a search on NYS fuel gas code you can view it free on the NYS website https://dos.ny.gov/system/files/documents/2020/09/2020-fgcnys-november-2019.pdf
  • CFH
    CFH Member Posts: 72
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    https://dos.ny.gov/system/files/documents/2020/09/2020-fgcnys-november-2019.pdf

    Section 403.10.1 Pipe joints. Schedule 40 and heavier pipe joints
    shall be threaded, flanged, brazed, welded or assembled
    with press-connect fittings
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,784
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    Clearly the real pros weld or braze gas piping in NYC.
    Threaded joints are for DIY.

    :D
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    Mad Dog_2
  • dko
    dko Member Posts: 611
    edited April 2023
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    Iron press for gas may be allowed in other parts of NYS, but not NYC.
    Mad Dog_2PC7060
  • JohnNY
    JohnNY Member Posts: 3,231
    edited April 2023
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    pipers said:

    Can pro press fittings for gas be used in nys / nyc

    You're asking two different questions. Pro/Mega-Press is strictly prohibited on gas piping in all 5 boroughs of NYC. Can't do it. Don't even think about it.
    Some parts of NY State probably allow it but I don't know any off the top of my head.

    Contact John "JohnNY" Cataneo, NYC Master Plumber, Lic 1784
    Consulting & Troubleshooting
    Heating in NYC or NJ.
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    ChrisJAlan (California Radiant) ForbesMad Dog_2pipers
  • Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
    Alan (California Radiant) Forbes Member Posts: 4,050
    edited April 2023
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    Pro/Mega-Press is strictly prohibited on gas piping in all 5 boroughs of NYC. Can't do it. Don't even think about it.

    Bingo (whew!)

    8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour

    Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,106
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    I hope THEY NEVER ALLOW it...Scary...Chris...no one worth their salt in NYC brazes gas..thats a bad joke, right?  Mad Dog
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,784
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    Mad Dog_2 said:

    I hope THEY NEVER ALLOW it...Scary...Chris...no one worth their salt in NYC brazes gas..thats a bad joke, right?  Mad Dog


    It was a joke, though I'm not sure why it's bad.
    A good quality brazed joint is quite strong, and apparently allowed by code in NYC.

    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • JohnNY
    JohnNY Member Posts: 3,231
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    ChrisJ said:
    I hope THEY NEVER ALLOW it...Scary...Chris...no one worth their salt in NYC brazes gas..thats a bad joke, right?  Mad Dog
    It was a joke, though I'm not sure why it's bad. A good quality brazed joint is quite strong, and apparently allowed by code in NYC.
    It’s allowed in NYS because there are areas that allow for copper tubing and flare/brazed connections. Copper tubing is not allowed in NYC for gas piping. 
    Put your brazing rods away in the 5 boroughs.  
    Contact John "JohnNY" Cataneo, NYC Master Plumber, Lic 1784
    Consulting & Troubleshooting
    Heating in NYC or NJ.
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    ChrisJMad Dog_2
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,784
    edited April 2023
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    JohnNY said:


    ChrisJ said:

    Mad Dog_2 said:

    I hope THEY NEVER ALLOW it...Scary...Chris...no one worth their salt in NYC brazes gas..thats a bad joke, right?  Mad Dog


    It was a joke, though I'm not sure why it's bad.
    A good quality brazed joint is quite strong, and apparently allowed by code in NYC.



    It’s allowed in NYS because there are areas that allow for copper tubing and flare/brazed connections. Copper tubing is not allowed in NYC for gas piping. 
    Put your brazing rods away in the 5 boroughs.  
    What is the reason copper is allowed in some areas but not others?
    I believe I've heard the same thing about NJ? I think it's allowed for LPG, but not NG or is that incorrect?

    Either way, what is the reason for not allowing it?
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    Mad Dog_2
  • Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
    Alan (California Radiant) Forbes Member Posts: 4,050
    edited April 2023
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    I think natural gas reacts with copper and forms a deposit. Have you ever removed an old soft copper appliance connector? Typically, you tap it on the ground and bits of oxide fall out.

    8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour

    Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab
    ChrisJ
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,106
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    Plumbers, steam fitters and boiler makers in the 5 Boros and Long Island 🏝. And I'm sure in most big Metropolises, have a great degree of pride and hold themselves to the highest standards.  We DO judge each other on certain things.  For example, we would never use a Fernco Coupling unless it was temp...Or you had no Home Depots open at 2am. No Teflon Tape on Natural Gas, We're  not going to use a Thin, cheap PVC P trap on a Lavatory sink.  We not going to use a Tap Saddle for a Soil pipe Tie in.  We use solid Chrome Plated Copper tank and basin supplies (Speedies) that we take great pride in bending w A Ridgid Tubing Bender.  We use a Stainless Steel Flex only in a emergency.  We're not going to use a Union on a run. We're not going to use those corrugated copper Water Heater flexes that HD sells.   I could go on....Codes are MINIMUM standards.  I don't do ANYTHING MINIMUM.  Just because A Code allows it doesn't  mean its best industry practice.  Mad Dog 
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,784
    edited April 2023
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    I see
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    Mad Dog_2
  • Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
    Alan (California Radiant) Forbes Member Posts: 4,050
    edited April 2023
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    @Mad Dog_2 I agree with most of those except I almost always use teflon tape on gas pipe and those PVC p-traps?……..they sure are easy to put together and never seem to leak. 

    It comes down to things you feel comfortable with and what is in the customer’s best interests. 
    8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour

    Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab
    Mad Dog_2
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,106
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    Absolutely!  100!   My father in law who was just a bust A--  hard working Chemist and Ran the Nassau County Dept of Health Water Bureau was not a trained plumber, but a Jack of all trades.  He could & WOULD  do ANYTHING.  He had his day job and went right to a side job every night...He excelled at Electrical, Carpentry and Auto repair. He'd climb poles and do Electric service,, tie in to scary panels...He once even jumped in to a trench in his suit to tie in a gushing public sewer main, when the plumbers bailed out.  The stunned crowd was amazed..  Covered in slushy  poo water, he quipped "Ahhh I got my Hepatitis shots!! Not worried!!"   Don had  No sons,, but his two gorgeous Daughters worked like Men from age 6 mixing cement,, setting toilets,, pulling engines..  His plumbing was never up to my standards but He GOT it done!! And it didn't leak.  He would pipe something out, I would rip it out...ha ha. I let him and his Brother, Uncle Bob, The Draftsman, install an Oil fired HW boiler.  They never checked to see if the nozzle was in and ran the boiler for a few minutes...ugh..I spent the next day, "Smoking out" the  soaked combustion chamber blanket...you should have seen the smoke that filled the block!!!  After a year of this, I turned him in to an " A " Helper.  But 'Dondi" could fix anything and would rig MacGyver-ish contraptions, reuse fittings, fix leaks no one could.  I was very fortunate to have him as my Side kick Pre-Triple Crown to Post Triple Crown 1992-2020. Sometimes, at 1am in the morning, he'd say go to the truck 🚚..You don't wanna see this...MY names on it not yours!"  Never anything dangerous or life threatening, just Fugly, Gruesome not Pretty like I like it...Sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do with what you have......Mad Dog 🐕 
    Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,075
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    The USA made PVC P-traps have been my choice for about 40 years, except for being exposed under wall hung sinks.

    The HC insulation boot does cover them up nicely though.
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,075
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    As far as copper tubing on NG, our original gas supplier would not allow any copper.

    Reasoning was impurities in the NG would attack the copper and produce scale which may prevent valves from closing tightly.

    The exception was to constant burning yard lights, connected outside usually just after the meter.
    But that UG outside copper had to be internally tin lined to keep the gas from the copper.

    Both the "always on" gas light and the tin lined tubing are things of the past now.

    Although in New Orleans I did notice some gas wall lights burning constantly and badly yellow.

    ChrisJ
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,784
    edited April 2023
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    JUGHNE said:
    The USA made PVC P-traps have been my choice for about 40 years, except for being exposed under wall hung sinks. The HC insulation boot does cover them up nicely though.
    I have no interest in anything other than PVC and ABS for drains.

    If I had a commercial kitchen I may consider different but here we have no problem running cold water when dumping a pot of boiling water etc.



    He was right.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    Mad Dog_2
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,106
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    PVC has its use, but it does NOT have the same life as Cast Iron.  Its ok for yard drains and things like that..  I very much enjoy working with PVC.  It takes great skill to make it look really good..  Commercial?  Forget about it..Don't hold up....I gutted and repiped my old Farmhouse 23 yrs ago...ZERO PVC...not even on AC drain pan overflows.  I also don't like that Burning PVC produces harmful fumes.  That's why the Firemen 🚒 fought its use.  Mad Dog
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,106
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    Great Movie Dustin is the best...Katherine Ross!  Anne Bancroft...What a movie 🎥 👏 

    Mad Dog 
    ChrisJ
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,784
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    Mad Dog_2 said:
    PVC has its use, but it does NOT have the same life as Cast Iron.  Its ok for yard drains and things like that..  I very much enjoy working with PVC.  It takes great skill to make it look really good..  Commercial?  Forget about it..Don't hold up....I gutted and repiped my old Farmhouse 23 yrs ago...ZERO PVC...not even on AC drain pan overflows.  I also don't like that Burning PVC produces harmful fumes.  That's why the Firemen 🚒 fought its use.  Mad Dog
    I've seen pvc used for sprinkler systems in commercial buildings so I'm not sure what you mean.   I'm l

    I'll agree PVC doesn't have the life of cast iron.  It has a much longer life.   :D
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    ethicalpaulMikeAmann
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,784
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    Mad Dog_2 said:
    Great Movie Dustin is the best...Katherine Ross!  Anne Bancroft...What a movie 🎥 👏 

    Mad Dog 
    I saw that movie when I was around 20 years old and thought all of the movies in the 60s were "family friendly"

    By the end I knew that was far from accurate and I was also impressed at how good of an actor Dustin Hoffman was because at that point I only knew him as "rainman".


    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,106
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    My wife and I rented 1982? AIRPLANE to watch with the kids.  About 3 minutes in
    We suddenly "Remembered" how naughty it was...Next movie 🎥!  Yes, also, Midnight Cowboy, Meet The Parents, Kramer vs Kramer, Tootsie, et al.    Mad Dog 
    MikeAmann
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,784
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    Mad Dog_2 said:
    My wife and I rented 1982? AIRPLANE to watch with the kids.  About 3 minutes in
    We suddenly "Remembered" how naughty it was...Next movie 🎥!  Yes, also, Midnight Cowboy, Meet The Parents, Kramer vs Kramer, Tootsie, et al.    Mad Dog 
    There's only 2 scenes I can think of I wouldn't want my kids seeing in Airplane.

    There's quite a few 1960s-70s movies I was amazed by.   The Graduate... The Getaway...

    Mr Majestic.


    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • JohnNY
    JohnNY Member Posts: 3,231
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    ChrisJ said:

    JohnNY said:




    Either way, what is the reason for not allowing it?

    I had always heard it had something to do with copper's conductivity. I think the NYC codes are generally very slow and in fact resistant to allow the simplifying of gas pipe connections. According to the Acting Commissioner it invites the unregulated, non-pros and they've been trying desperately to avoid that for years.
    Contact John "JohnNY" Cataneo, NYC Master Plumber, Lic 1784
    Consulting & Troubleshooting
    Heating in NYC or NJ.
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    ChrisJ