Radiator Identification

dabrakeman

Anyone here able to identify the manufacturer of these radiators? I have gone through all the uploaded manuals in the Heatinghelp directory and didn't see this rather distinct design. I can estimate the EDR but would really like to obtain the manufacturers number if possible since the project is large and there are a number of these. They are for a steam system but some of the rads are designed for either and some steam specific but otherwise the same design.

EdTheHeaterMan

I would need to dunk them in a vat of paint, then see how much paint is missing from that vat. Once I know that, I would paint the floor in an abandoned warehouse to see how many square feet that much paint covers.

The other way would be to scan the dimensions into a computer program that can add up all the nooks and crannies of that awesome design. Either way, I can't help you with that because I don't have that compiuter program or a big vat of paint that you might be able to use.

dabrakeman

Of course I tried to find an original cast identification particularly around the inlets but can't see any evidence of any. Possibly too much paint but checked 5 or 6 of them and don't see any evidence on any.

Mad Dog_2

Gorgeous 😍.   Ready for the Sandblaster for exposing the fine filagree....Steamhead will know the brand, the year, what happened that year!  Mad Dog

EdTheHeaterMan

Mad Dog_2 said:

Gorgeous 😍.   Ready for the Sandblaster for exposing the fine filagree....Steamhead will know the brand, the year, what happened that year All the way back to the first steam radiator in America. Mr.Ed !  Mad Dog

Shout out to @Steamhead or perhaps @Jamie Hall for identifying this piece of artwork that happens to also emit heat.

reggi

Aren't the original blueprints available ? Their design says " Significant Project" .. What area are they located in... Local foundry perhaps... Anything on the valves ?
or you can wait for @Steamhead to come and answer your question as already suggested ☺️

Steamhead

I've seen that design before but can't remember if we ever found the maker. But they're basically column radiators, so any standard chart like the American Rococo should work for you.

dabrakeman

Funny I also had the same feeling I had seen something like them before... They are up in the UP of Michigan so could be from one of many potential Midwest foundry locations. Yes, just a 5 sqft per section (3 tube 38") would serve the purpose. Curiosity has the better of me though.

dabrakeman

The system also has some wall mount radiators that I believe I might have identified.


I found somewhere (can't remember where, probably from this forum... it was a file on my hard drive) this "Novelty Iron Company" flyer which matches the dimensions and even the design details of the wall mount rads shown above. I cannot find anymore catalogues or information on the Novelty Iron Company and just thought there was an outside chance that the standing radiators might have been obtained from the same company.


A little confusing is whether Novelty Iron Company and Novelty Iron Works is one in the same or not. This company (Works) according to Wiki operated under a few different names but apparently ceased operations in 1870. This does not match with the building these rads are located in which was built between 1898-1900.

Anyway just putting this out there in case someone had some more information on the Novelty Iron Company/Works or better yet had some access to additional catalogues (I'm sure they made more than just this one wall radiator style...).

Unfortunately I'm not at liberty to provide details (yet) of this public project but more could be coming on that at a later date. Just trying to help them steer in the right direction on a few things.

Waher

More than one Novelty Iron Works existed around the country.

I think your company is this one in Ohio:
https://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/search/object/SILNMAHTL_33468

One of their catalogs available on Archive.org : (see pages 68-69 [original printed page 67 at the bottom] for the wall radiator) I don't see the other radiator in that catalog so it may have been made by someone else or have been discontinued by the manufacturer by the time that catalog was printed. Maybe try some of the local libraries/universities to see if they have other editions of their trade catalogs archived.
https://archive.org/details/ourOwnFittersHandBook/page/n11/mode/2up

dabrakeman

Thank you @Waher. Great to see the whole catalogue that the wall units were in. Shot in the dark that it might contain the standing units. I think I need a primer though in how to use the Smithsonian and Archive systems. I.e. how did you get from the Smithsonian americanhistory.si listing eventually to the actual catalog contained in the archive.org system? Is there a link that I am missing? I couldn't seem to do anything with the record ID.

EdTheHeaterMan

Although archive.org may have more catalogues to look thru, I would narrow my search to items published before 1922, when Federal Radiator of Pa. would have run out of Novelty product.

Waher

Looks like the Novelty Iron Company used to go by "NICO" in later trade literature.


https://findingaids.hagley.org/repositories/3/archival_objects/518241

https://collections.si.edu/search/detail/edanmdm:SILNMAHTL_14621?q=url:"edanmdm:SILNMAHTL_14621"&record=1&hlterm=url:"edanmdm:SILNMAHTL_14621"

Old issues of American Architect and City Builder or The American Architect and Building News might have advertising around the time.

dabrakeman

Thank you @EdTheHeaterMan and @Waher
You both obviously have some experience digging through these old records! I do know that the radiators are very likely original to the structure given the nature of the structure and thus should be from available advertised stock in the 1898-1900 timeframe or before. I'll keep trying to find an earlier catalogue.

Waher

If you're lucky the original plans and specs may still be archived with the city or the architect's papers may have wound up at a local university or library. The second bit is a long shot. Sometimes architecture firms which have been in business for 100 years have internal archives (Shepley Bulfinch, Perry Dean Roger, etc.) with the drawings (cyanotypes, linen or mylar) if you are really lucky. Those old drawing sets have beautiful heating drawings that put modern one line diagrams to shame.

Steamhead

Waher said:

More than one Novelty Iron Works existed around the country.

I think your company is this one in Ohio:
https://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/search/object/SILNMAHTL_33468

One of their catalogs available on Archive.org : (see pages 68-69 [original printed page 67 at the bottom] for the wall radiator) I don't see the other radiator in that catalog so it may have been made by someone else or have been discontinued by the manufacturer by the time that catalog was printed. Maybe try some of the local libraries/universities to see if they have other editions of their trade catalogs archived.
https://archive.org/details/ourOwnFittersHandBook/page/n11/mode/2up

So that's where the "Our Own" name came from. @Mad Dog_2 , I think your "Our Own" flue radiator is older than this though.................

dabrakeman

There is an archive at the MTU campus I will have to visit next time I am up there.

Erin Holohan Haskell

Sorry, @dabrakeman, I'm not seeing this radiator in our books.

dabrakeman

Erin Holohan Haskell said:

Sorry, @dabrakeman, I'm not seeing this radiator in our books.

Noooo! All is lost then Thank you for looking.

EdTheHeaterMan

here is a page from National Radiator Co 1903 Catalog. The may have made one of your radiator covers.

dabrakeman

Cool. I haven't seen too many of these around so wonder how popular they were? Maybe more just in public facilities? In areas with enormously high ceilings I could see the desire to direct a little more of the heat laterally before it goes up to the ceiling in addition to the stated reason in the ad. I wonder if most radiator companies offered them? If I could get them for four or five bucks each I would put them on my radiators...

BobC

Years ago I read a post on this site that a shelf about 4" above a radiator would do a good job of distributing the convective heat output of a radiator. i forget who posted it but it made sense to me.

Bob

reggi

Looks like 1916 they officially became Nico even though they were using Nico with Novelty Iron Co. since 1911or 12.. So @dabrakeman the turn of the century I'm pretty sure you'd be researching " The Novelty Iron Co. " 
1916 Read the bottom line..in 1915 they still were The Novelty Iron Co 

dabrakeman

This from Fowler & Wolfe (1900) catalogue (available in any combination configuration) appears to be another possibility for the wall radiators source. Pattern seems identical to what listed from Novelty Iron Co.

dabrakeman

Has anyone ever accessed the Richmond Radiator Company catalogs that might be available in the Smithsonian archives per https://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/SILNMAHTL_11756 or the Pierce Steam Heating Co per https://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/SILNMAHTL_32552 ? Or if not how the process works for trying to get scans done. I have not found anything indicating that there is any electronic media existing for this. Not likely either will shed more light on our mystery 3 column radiator but one radiator different from all the others that might have been a replacement radiator had the Pierce Steam Heating Co marking and we think some Richmond Radiators might be in a neighboring building of same era.

BTW, this 3 column radiator we have been trying to identify has 3" section spacing rather than 2.5". Also, the average section depth is closer to 10" rather than the standard 9".