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Oatey Flanges

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taylorgeo
taylorgeo Member Posts: 74
Apology for starting a new thread on flanges, but I just wanted to get more specific.

Just curious why these two flanges have gaskets that expand to make such a tight seal? If end up having a viable lead or cast iron pipe, why couldn’t I just pop in a flange without a gasket?

Thanks in advance.


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  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,833
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    Sewer gas
    JUGHNELong Beach Ed
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,104
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    If a WC flush hesitates going down to the main sewer, water could back up and seep at that point.
    It is better to have the bowl overflow than have a leak under the floor that you may never see.....but eventually smell.

    The bowl wax would be a weak point and might get blown out but this is something you would see and easily fix.
  • taylorgeo
    taylorgeo Member Posts: 74
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    I think I found the pipe going up to the second floor toilet.

    Can anyone tell me if it's Cast Iron or Lead? House was built in 1945.

    Here's a photo...
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,104
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    Magnet will stick to cast.

    Lead may have been used to transition to the floor flange.
    Soft, almost scratch it with a fingernail.
  • taylorgeo
    taylorgeo Member Posts: 74
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    @JUGHNE Yep, the magnet stuck. This pipe may go straight up to the flange with no bend. We will see. If there is a bend, what would it likely be made out of, Cast Iron, Lead, PVC, ABS?


  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,944
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    cast iron or lead unless it was replaced in which case it could be pvc or it could be cast iron with repair pieces attached
  • taylorgeo
    taylorgeo Member Posts: 74
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    @mattmia2 Gotcha. Didn’t realize you can join PVC to Cast Iron. 
  • psb75
    psb75 Member Posts: 863
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    In the plumbing trade...you have to be able to join anything to ANYTHING.
  • taylorgeo
    taylorgeo Member Posts: 74
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    @psb75 Haha! 
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,104
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    I doubt if the pipe goes straight up to the flange without a bend.

    A straight 8' drop out of a WC flange might cause problems.

    IDB there is always a bend......code??? Someone here knows for sure.
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,944
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    JUGHNE said:

    I doubt if the pipe goes straight up to the flange without a bend.

    A straight 8' drop out of a WC flange might cause problems.

    IDB there is always a bend......code??? Someone here knows for sure.

    It would have to be vented near the bowl somehow so it would pull in air from the vent rater than the bowl. That is usually a tee(or tee wye, I'd have to look at the code) that continues up the vent with the bowl connected to the branch.
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,472
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    taylorgeo said:

    Apology for starting a new thread on flanges, but I just wanted to get more specific.

    Just curious why these two flanges have gaskets that expand to make such a tight seal? If end up having a viable lead or cast iron pipe, why couldn’t I just pop in a flange without a gasket?

    Thanks in advance.



    Those are retrofit flanges, used when you cannot or don’t want to attach to the outside of the pipe.
    They should fit or be available for PVC, and ABS, possible the hewed no-hub cast iron pipe.

    Obviously the inside of the pipe needs to be clean and smooth for a proper seal
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • taylorgeo
    taylorgeo Member Posts: 74
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    @hot_rod Gotcha, thanks. What are some tools/materials needed to clean and smooth out the inside of a cast iron pipe?
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 5,792
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    I use my best screwdriver usually :sweat_smile:

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,915
    edited February 2023
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    I'm really curious how you get a nice clean smooth surface for that rubber to seal against on cast iron.
    I'd expect the only realistic place for that to work is pvc or abs.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • taylorgeo
    taylorgeo Member Posts: 74
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    @ChrisJ Wouldn’t the wax ring also help seal in the sewer gasses?  
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,104
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    I have seen a lot of old installs here, done in the 50's perhaps, where 4" cast is run close to the floor hole.
    Then a 4" lead bend is used to go up thru the floor.

    Or a CI 90 is used for the bend and a lead riser up to the floor. Sometimes see some creative offsets done.

    The lead was extended up maybe an inch or so. Then the lead hammered over down flat on the floor to develop a flange.
    Bowl wax used and lag screws into the wood floor secured the WC (for quite a few years anyway....then maybe longer larger lag bolts used....most WC's had 4 floor mounting holes....all used most of the time.

    So 50 years later with rotten wood, time to repair. New wood as needed, bend up the lead flange and hammer back down on the new wood.

    I have used the top pictured flange on lead, the lead is soft enough to conform with the rubber gasket.

    IIRC it even worked sometimes on CI.

    There is a potential surprise under every WC.

    Taylorgeo, the wax will only seal between the china and the flange.
    You need a tight seal between any new flange and old.

    You may have a CI flange under the WC.
    There are several to repair that simply if needed.
    Show us what you have.
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,472
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    There are rubber seal type that clamp on the outside also. You just need to see what you uncover, then buy the best flange. There is a good chance you can reuse what you have now. Could be just a failed bowl seal.

    If the wood did get wet, you need to get it dry before resetting, else you get a mold growth, smell, etc.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,104
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    If you wanted be prepared before pulling the WC;

    Assuming you have a CI flange, sitting on the finish floor, that may be rusted and not hold the bolts, I would get the flange repair ring. It is flat steel that might hinge open to install and provide new mounting slots for bolts.

    If you have a flange that is flush with the finished floor then get 1 or 2 PVC flange extenders.
    They are sealed to the existing flange with silicone caulk and screwed into the floor. This puts the flange just the thickness of the flange above the floor. Usually needs only 1.

    And get the flange shown in your first picture just in case.

    Also a standard no seep wax and then an extra thick wax.

    Bowl bolts as needed, I like the 5/16" size.

    Maybe a SS flex supply connector.

    Some 2" x 10 screws to drive into the floor.

    You can buy all of this in advance and return what you do not need.

    I would guess a plumber would have all of this in his truck and more.
  • Long Beach Ed
    Long Beach Ed Member Posts: 1,215
    edited February 2023
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    There is a potential surprise under every WC.

    I really like that quote. Truer words never spoken.

    ...And there are hundreds of products, good and bad to try to adapt to any condition. The challenge is knowing what's available and what you might need and having it before you rip everything out.
    JUGHNE
  • realliveplumber
    realliveplumber Member Posts: 354
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    Under the NSPC, the maximum length for a trap arm for a water closet is 3' vertically, and 9' horizontally.
  • taylorgeo
    taylorgeo Member Posts: 74
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    Thanks, everyone. I purchased everything except for the screws that would attach the flange to the subfloor. I think it's wood under the tiles. Can you tell me exactly what screws to get?

    I'll gladly buy a variety of screws for different subfloor materials JUST in case it's NOT wood under the finished floor.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,915
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    One of my toilets has a copper 90 into a copper flange 
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    mattmia2
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,944
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    It is probably a variety of lengths of screws that you will need. You won't know that until you know how thick the layers between the flange or extension or repair flange and the wood is. There is a strong possibility they raised the floor and never extended the flange and the bowl ring just failed because the flange is too low.
    Long Beach Edreggi
  • taylorgeo
    taylorgeo Member Posts: 74
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    I swear, last question: If it is cast iron underneath the toilet, is it more likely to be 3 inches or 4 inches here in New York City?
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,944
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    Older stuff tended to be 4".