New to the Forum…

urbngasoutfitr

I hope everyone is having a healthy & happy new year thus far. I am new to the forum and would like to start off with a good impression, hopefully lol. I love the plumbing & heating industry! I have successfully installed almost a dozen boilers(hydronic & steam), but still on the quest for knowledge. I know for a fact that there’s still much to learn and be seen within the industry, so I’m hoping you can share your stories and show some love as well.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Nice Job!!

urbngasoutfitr

Thanks Ed! Really appreciate the support. This was an install that I completed with the help of 2 other guys. Was a 3 day job completed this past Saturday. Here are a couple photos of the install. Once again thanks for the support 🤝🏽

KC_Jones

The layout looks fine, but that boiler requires 2 1/2” piping for the riser and header at minimum.  I can clearly see 2 on one of the elbows so all the riser and header are undersized.

If you are going to get into steam you should be prepared for 3” pipe at minimum, some would say 4”, or just walk away from the steam entirely.  I’m not trying to be rude, but we see this time and time again on this site and as a homeowner I get tired of seeing people pay for inferior work.

I’m just a homeowner and I did 3” pipe on my boiler, if I can and you are getting paid you absolutely should or walk away.

BTW it’s right in the manual that it requires 2 1/2” piping.  My suggestion, the manual is your best friend, follow it or don’t do the work.  I’m attaching a screenshot for reference.  4 sections, 5 burners is an EG-40, same as I have, 2 1/2” pipe.

ChrisJ

I did two 2" into a 3" header on my EG-40.

urbngasoutfitr

Thanks for your feedback KC! As this was a smaller home with 8 rads, 1 pipe system. There was actually an EG-40 in which we removed, plus the existing mains were also 2”. All air vents were swapped, main vent swapped, flushed and skimmed, automatic water feeder set, low water cutoff tested. But I absolutely agree with your statement on the 2-1/2” headers. Not sure if I wanted to install 2-1/2” headers & reduce back down to 2”, but we also took into consideration every aspect of the manual instructions. The boiler is running fine & I doubt there will be any issues moving forward. 

Thanks for your input 

urbngasoutfitr

ChrisJ said:

I did two 2" into a 3" header on my EG-40.

I just wanted to keep everything uniform. In which the project turned out perfect. Didn’t really mess with the mains in the ceiling, but ran some test fires everything worked out great. No hammering no LWC activity, smooth install. 

Thanks! 

EdTheHeaterMan

ChrisJ said:

I did two 2" into a 3" header on my EG-40.

How has it been working for you?

ChrisJ

EdTheHeaterMan said:

I did two 2" into a 3" header on my EG-40.

How has it been working for you?

Excellent.

I didn't want to but it's what was recommended and it met the manufacturers requirements.

I only have two 2" mains but that's irrelevant.
If the radiation in the house requires an EG40 it needs to be piped to meet those demands.

If the radiation is smaller then a smaller boiler should've been used.

KC_Jones

The size of the home and size of the mains have nothing to do with it.  The manufacturer has requirements and those are to be followed.  The installation is incorrect no matter how much you try and justify it.  For reference 2-2” mains are the equivalent of one 3” pipe.

Follow the manual or walk away.  Seriously, the warranty is technically void at this point so you better be prepared to own it.

The project is most certainly and factually not perfect.

If you’re going to come here to learn, then learn, don’t defend wrong.  Again I’m just a basic homeowner and I can run 3” pipe, you need to do that too, especially getting paid.

There are guys on here screwing 6” pipe.  Step up your game at least to minimum spec.

urbngasoutfitr

What is the difference between an EG & PEG Weil McLain Boiler? 

reggi

@urbngasoutfitr How old and what failed on the old one you replaced ? 
Obviously not by the book word for word but it the work looks good from what I can see... 

urbngasoutfitr

@reggi the old boiler was about 20 years old give or take, cracked heat exchanger, highly corroded crumbling while removing the back portion of the jacket. Same model we installed. Thanks for the feedback 

Big Ed_4

There is an ancient rule in this industry , It's called handing the Ladle , The New guy Buys Lunch !

JohnNY

urbngasoutfitr said:

What is the difference between an EG & PEG Weil McLain Boiler? 

P is for packaged. The EG boiler comes partially disassembled. They are functionally identical.

JohnNY

urbngasoutfitr said:

ChrisJ said:

I did two 2" into a 3" header on my EG-40.

I just wanted to keep everything uniform. In which the project turned out perfect. Didn’t really mess with the mains in the ceiling, but ran some test fires everything worked out great. No hammering no LWC activity, smooth install. 

Thanks! 

Perfect? Wow. You can't practically field test for dry/wet steam so we really never know how well our systems are performing in that regard but we do have old literature and factory testing to refer to. The charts and installation manuals are not to be ignored. I don't know better than the factory and neither do you.
It has been said that the size and number of mains don't matter but the plumber in me just won't allow one 2" pipe to feed two 2"pipes. So, I'm going to side with the installation instructions here. Also, don't buy so many bushings next time. Like the ones you put in the supply, return, Hartford Loop (if that's what that contraption with the hose spigot is supposed to be) and skim port. They're all doing the opposite of helping.
Welcome to the forum.

Mad Dog_2

Willkommen!!! (A Pennsylvania-Dutch Welcome)  You obviously take great pride which is really nice to see.  Yeah trying to figure out your unique fitting contraption. Ma Dog

urbngasoutfitr

@JohnNY well I wouldn’t say perfect, lol. Maybe I went a little too far on that. But the reason behind the bushings is that supply houses in the area have been really scarce on certain fittings. Absolutely correct. Thanks. The bushings in the equalizer, below Hartford loop are the only ones there. Skim port on same side as controls. Boiler drains for below wet return which there were none before, extra for service & flushing of system. I guess that 1/2” of pipe not used will be the demise of me.. Lol thank you for your feedback & I hope to learn more within the forum 

urbngasoutfitr

@Mad Dog_2 bushings are definitely not my style but we had to work with what we had. Thank you for the warm welcome lol. I do take great pride in my work & hope to learn more within the forum & industry. 

Mad Dog_2

No worries. I once did an emergency boiler on a Sunday for a friend where we got ALL the fittings at "Help-yourself-depot."
It was a bushing bonanza.  I actually told him...: "Pat...I was NEVER here, got it?"  Mad Dog 🐕 

Mad Dog_2

I love all the tees with boiler drains at low points.  I always add in a Gate valve between the Hartford Loop and tee coming up from the wet return for powerflushing purposes.  Mad dog 🐕 

urbngasoutfitr

@Mad Dog_2 thanks for the tip on the ball valve! Getting reamed out by the forum is how we learn! Lol “I was NEVER here.. Got it!?” 🤝🏽

KC_Jones

urbngasoutfitr said:

@JohnNY well I wouldn’t say perfect, lol. Maybe I went a little too far on that. But the reason behind the bushings is that supply houses in the area have been really scarce on certain fittings. Absolutely correct. Thanks. The bushings in the equalizer, below Hartford loop are the only ones there. Skim port on same side as controls. Boiler drains for below wet return which there were none before, extra for service & flushing of system. I guess that 1/2” of pipe not used will be the demise of me.. Lol thank you for your feedback & I hope to learn more within the forum 

2 1/2” pipe has an internal cross section that is 42.7% bigger than 2” pipe.  Pipe sizing is critical, not a joke as you imply.

42.7%.  If your going to do this work, start warming to the idea of doing the math so you can learn.  And yes, there is plenty of math in this trade, that is if you want to do the work properly.

ChrisJ

Alright everything else aside what was the total EDR of the radiation?

ethicalpaul

JohnNY said:

You can't practically field test for dry/wet steam so we really never know how well our systems are performing in that regard

Can't we?

ChrisJ

ethicalpaul said:

You can't practically field test for dry/wet steam so we really never know how well our systems are performing in that regard

Can't we?

You can also usually test the wet return TDS.  It should be 0 or very very close to 0.  

Matt_67

Definitely need to follow the recommended pipe sizes. That being said I do wonder a bit how W/M is ok with two 2” risers on the eg-75 but recommends the 2-1/2” on the eg-40? Maybe something with the steam chest?

ChrisJ

Matt_67 said:

Definitely need to follow the recommended pipe sizes. That being said I do wonder a bit how W/M is ok with two 2” risers on the eg-75 but recommends the 2-1/2” on the eg-40? Maybe something with the steam chest?

The steam doesn't have enough room to get out of the long block on the bigger one.

Probably in reality a 75 would benefit from two 3" risers.