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I hope everyone is having a healthy & happy new year thus far. I am new to the forum and would like to start off with a good impression, hopefully lol. I love the plumbing & heating industry! I have successfully installed almost a dozen boilers(hydronic & steam), but still on the quest for knowledge. I know for a fact that there’s still much to learn and be seen within the industry, so I’m hoping you can share your stories and show some love as well.

Comments

  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,750
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    Nice Job!!
    urbngasoutfitr
  • urbngasoutfitr
    urbngasoutfitr Member Posts: 25
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    Thanks Ed! Really appreciate the support. This was an install that I completed with the help of 2 other guys. Was a 3 day job completed this past Saturday. Here are a couple photos of the install. Once again thanks for the support 🤝🏽
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 5,745
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    The layout looks fine, but that boiler requires 2 1/2” piping for the riser and header at minimum.  I can clearly see 2 on one of the elbows so all the riser and header are undersized.

    If you are going to get into steam you should be prepared for 3” pipe at minimum, some would say 4”, or just walk away from the steam entirely.  I’m not trying to be rude, but we see this time and time again on this site and as a homeowner I get tired of seeing people pay for inferior work.

    I’m just a homeowner and I did 3” pipe on my boiler, if I can and you are getting paid you absolutely should or walk away.

    BTW it’s right in the manual that it requires 2 1/2” piping.  My suggestion, the manual is your best friend, follow it or don’t do the work.  I’m attaching a screenshot for reference.  4 sections, 5 burners is an EG-40, same as I have, 2 1/2” pipe.

    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
    urbngasoutfitrJohnNY
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,859
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    I did two 2" into a 3" header on my EG-40.


    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    urbngasoutfitr
  • urbngasoutfitr
    urbngasoutfitr Member Posts: 25
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    Thanks for your feedback KC! As this was a smaller home with 8 rads, 1 pipe system. There was actually an EG-40 in which we removed, plus the existing mains were also 2”. All air vents were swapped, main vent swapped, flushed and skimmed, automatic water feeder set, low water cutoff tested. But I absolutely agree with your statement on the 2-1/2” headers. Not sure if I wanted to install 2-1/2” headers & reduce back down to 2”, but we also took into consideration every aspect of the manual instructions. The boiler is running fine & I doubt there will be any issues moving forward. 

    Thanks for your input 
  • urbngasoutfitr
    urbngasoutfitr Member Posts: 25
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    ChrisJ said:
    I did two 2" into a 3" header on my EG-40.


    I just wanted to keep everything uniform. In which the project turned out perfect. Didn’t really mess with the mains in the ceiling, but ran some test fires everything worked out great. No hammering no LWC activity, smooth install. 

    Thanks! 
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 8,153
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    ChrisJ said:

    I did two 2" into a 3" header on my EG-40.


    How has it been working for you?

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,859
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    I did two 2" into a 3" header on my EG-40.


    How has it been working for you?


    Excellent.

    I didn't want to but it's what was recommended and it met the manufacturers requirements.

    I only have two 2" mains but that's irrelevant.
    If the radiation in the house requires an EG40 it needs to be piped to meet those demands.

    If the radiation is smaller then a smaller boiler should've been used.


    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    urbngasoutfitr
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 5,745
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    The size of the home and size of the mains have nothing to do with it.  The manufacturer has requirements and those are to be followed.  The installation is incorrect no matter how much you try and justify it.  For reference 2-2” mains are the equivalent of one 3” pipe.

    Follow the manual or walk away.  Seriously, the warranty is technically void at this point so you better be prepared to own it.

    The project is most certainly and factually not perfect.

    If you’re going to come here to learn, then learn, don’t defend wrong.  Again I’m just a basic homeowner and I can run 3” pipe, you need to do that too, especially getting paid.

    There are guys on here screwing 6” pipe.  Step up your game at least to minimum spec.
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
    urbngasoutfitrJohnNYgmcinnes
  • urbngasoutfitr
    urbngasoutfitr Member Posts: 25
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    What is the difference between an EG & PEG Weil McLain Boiler? 
  • reggi
    reggi Member Posts: 522
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    @urbngasoutfitr How old and what failed on the old one you replaced ? 
    Obviously not by the book word for word but it the work looks good from what I can see... 
    One way to get familiar something you know nothing about is to ask a really smart person a really stupid question
  • urbngasoutfitr
    urbngasoutfitr Member Posts: 25
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    @reggi the old boiler was about 20 years old give or take, cracked heat exchanger, highly corroded crumbling while removing the back portion of the jacket. Same model we installed. Thanks for the feedback 
  • Big Ed_4
    Big Ed_4 Member Posts: 2,818
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    There is an ancient rule in this industry , It's called handing the Ladle , The New guy Buys Lunch !

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

    urbngasoutfitr
  • JohnNY
    JohnNY Member Posts: 3,244
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    What is the difference between an EG & PEG Weil McLain Boiler? 
    P is for packaged. The EG boiler comes partially disassembled. They are functionally identical.
    Contact John "JohnNY" Cataneo, NYC Master Plumber, Lic 1784
    Consulting & Troubleshooting
    Heating in NYC or NJ.
    Classes
    urbngasoutfitr
  • JohnNY
    JohnNY Member Posts: 3,244
    edited January 2023
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    ChrisJ said:

    I did two 2" into a 3" header on my EG-40.




    I just wanted to keep everything uniform. In which the project turned out perfect. Didn’t really mess with the mains in the ceiling, but ran some test fires everything worked out great. No hammering no LWC activity, smooth install. 

    Thanks! 
    Perfect? Wow. You can't practically field test for dry/wet steam so we really never know how well our systems are performing in that regard but we do have old literature and factory testing to refer to. The charts and installation manuals are not to be ignored. I don't know better than the factory and neither do you.
    It has been said that the size and number of mains don't matter but the plumber in me just won't allow one 2" pipe to feed two 2"pipes. So, I'm going to side with the installation instructions here. Also, don't buy so many bushings next time. Like the ones you put in the supply, return, Hartford Loop (if that's what that contraption with the hose spigot is supposed to be) and skim port. They're all doing the opposite of helping.
    Welcome to the forum.

    Contact John "JohnNY" Cataneo, NYC Master Plumber, Lic 1784
    Consulting & Troubleshooting
    Heating in NYC or NJ.
    Classes
    urbngasoutfitr
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,197
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    Willkommen!!! (A Pennsylvania-Dutch Welcome)  You obviously take great pride which is really nice to see.  Yeah trying to figure out your unique fitting contraption. Ma Dog
    JohnNYurbngasoutfitr
  • urbngasoutfitr
    urbngasoutfitr Member Posts: 25
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    @JohnNY well I wouldn’t say perfect, lol. Maybe I went a little too far on that. But the reason behind the bushings is that supply houses in the area have been really scarce on certain fittings. Absolutely correct. Thanks. The bushings in the equalizer, below Hartford loop are the only ones there. Skim port on same side as controls. Boiler drains for below wet return which there were none before, extra for service & flushing of system. I guess that 1/2” of pipe not used will be the demise of me.. Lol thank you for your feedback & I hope to learn more within the forum 
  • urbngasoutfitr
    urbngasoutfitr Member Posts: 25
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    @Mad Dog_2 bushings are definitely not my style but we had to work with what we had. Thank you for the warm welcome lol. I do take great pride in my work & hope to learn more within the forum & industry. 
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,197
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    No worries. I once did an emergency boiler on a Sunday for a friend where we got ALL the fittings at "Help-yourself-depot."
    It was a bushing bonanza.  I actually told him...: "Pat...I was NEVER here, got it?"  Mad Dog 🐕 
    urbngasoutfitr
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,197
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    I love all the tees with boiler drains at low points.  I always add in a Gate valve between the Hartford Loop and tee coming up from the wet return for powerflushing purposes.  Mad dog 🐕 
    urbngasoutfitr
  • urbngasoutfitr
    urbngasoutfitr Member Posts: 25
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    @Mad Dog_2 thanks for the tip on the ball valve! Getting reamed out by the forum is how we learn! Lol “I was NEVER here.. Got it!?” 🤝🏽
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 5,745
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    @JohnNY well I wouldn’t say perfect, lol. Maybe I went a little too far on that. But the reason behind the bushings is that supply houses in the area have been really scarce on certain fittings. Absolutely correct. Thanks. The bushings in the equalizer, below Hartford loop are the only ones there. Skim port on same side as controls. Boiler drains for below wet return which there were none before, extra for service & flushing of system. I guess that 1/2” of pipe not used will be the demise of me.. Lol thank you for your feedback & I hope to learn more within the forum 

    2 1/2” pipe has an internal cross section that is 42.7% bigger than 2” pipe.  Pipe sizing is critical, not a joke as you imply.

    42.7%.  If your going to do this work, start warming to the idea of doing the math so you can learn.  And yes, there is plenty of math in this trade, that is if you want to do the work properly.
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
    ChrisJ
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,859
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    Alright everything else aside what was the total EDR of the radiation?

    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 5,757
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    JohnNY said:

    You can't practically field test for dry/wet steam so we really never know how well our systems are performing in that regard

    Can't we?


    NJ Steam Homeowner. See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,859
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    You can't practically field test for dry/wet steam so we really never know how well our systems are performing in that regard
    Can't we?
    You can also usually test the wet return TDS.  It should be 0 or very very close to 0.  
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Matt_67
    Matt_67 Member Posts: 295
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    Definitely need to follow the recommended pipe sizes. That being said I do wonder a bit how W/M is ok with two 2” risers on the eg-75 but recommends the 2-1/2” on the eg-40? Maybe something with the steam chest?
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,859
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    Matt_67 said:
    Definitely need to follow the recommended pipe sizes. That being said I do wonder a bit how W/M is ok with two 2” risers on the eg-75 but recommends the 2-1/2” on the eg-40? Maybe something with the steam chest?
    The steam doesn't have enough room to get out of the long block on the bigger one.

    Probably in reality a 75 would benefit from two 3" risers.


    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment