Need help in CT - steam boiler 1 pipe system… how to move low pipes?

andrewfb1

To all of the steam experts thank you in advance !

I have a gas powered steam boiler (note that when we moved in and converted to gas we received incorrect advice to convert the burner to a gas burner given the oil boiler was only 5-10 years old and in very good shape … it’s fine just too loud and will change that one day).

The system runs fine but I am finally finishing my basement. All of the steam pipes are on the perimeter and up high except for our return and the other pipe (???). We want to move higher or lower so I don’t risk my kids hanging on them one day and nobody over 6ft tall banging their head on the pipes. I have been told by a few plumbers who supposedly know steam that nothing can be done (can’t burry return and pump too risky bc of overflow).

Thoughts? Also, any steam experts in the CT area you would suggest I speak to?

Some pictures attached

Andrew in Stamford CT

STEVEusaPA

Your illegal flue pipe on both appliances scares me.
Looks like you should’ve addressed the steam pipes before you did the drywall and finishing.
Without more pictures and getting a full picture of the piping, it’s hard to say, but it doesn’t look doable.
But it sounds like the people who put eyes on it already gave you your answer.

andrewfb1

Thanks @STEVEusaPA - I had a liner put in when converted - permitted and coded. There was no liner when we moved in and former owners used oil. From my understanding all good. What am I missing?

Danny Scully

Not sure what @STEVEusaPA is seeing in terms of the flue pipe…in terms of the steam pipe, picture 2 is feasible for a repipe. Would that address your concerns @andrewfb1?

Long Beach Ed

Anything can be done, at a price. You'd shift the returns to follow the outside walls of the basement by the floor.

The biggest challenge here installing a return down by the floor would be choosing a path around the perimeter of the basement that doesn't have to dip under doorways. Even that can be done if necessary, again, at a cost.

Raising the larger supply pipe by most measures would be impractical or very costly.

andrewfb1

Thanks @Danny Scully not sure as well. Have never been told this and this was done in 2017 .

Yes look to raise or move pipes in picture 2. Any suggestions? Thx !

andrewfb1

Thanks @Long Beach Ed was told by floor wouldn’t be feasible. Maybe they were just saying underground.

Jamie Hall

Without actually looking at the whole system arrangement, I'd hesitate to say what could or could not be done easily. However, the "other" pipe appears to be a steam main, and it would be almost impossible to raise -- and it should be insulated. I wouldn't care to say about the ??? pipe without looking at the system as a whole. It might be possible to drop it to the floor; it's extremely unlikely that it could be raised.

Long Beach Ed

You might also be able to move a portion of the large main through the center of the room close to the ceiling, but it would depend on the configuration of the piping in other rooms and your budget. A lot of work.

clammy

I do believe that cost will find it unreasonable to do , I think the more import issue is zero insulation on your piping and zero hangers on anything that should be the first thing to do unless over time you would like to replace the piping due to leaks . That’s only a matter of time being leaks on mains and uninsulated piping usually go hand and hand just add time . As Ed has stated raising the main would be a good under taking and may be undoable as mentioned , converting the dry return to a wet is doable but most likely costly and depending on the layout of the basement wether it could be done would have to be seen . Usually when people ask to remove or hind the piping for a finished basement I usually tell them that steam may not be the system for them if there dreaming of flat ceilings and completely finished basement .Usually converting the home to hot water or something else is cost prohibitive unless the lottery is involuted . Best advise is get your mains properly hung w rod and clevis hanger and then insulate w a mim 1 inch wall fiber glass insulation and update your main vents being the one vent on your dry return looks a bit small and a pos to boot typical oil co vents ,go get some quality gorton main vents .
Peace and good luck clammy

EBEBRATT-Ed

If it heats ok and is not banging I would skip the insulation as I am sure you want some heat in the basement. The pipe should be supported though. Changing the steam mains would be costly and not worth it.

The return lines which are lower could probably be done but weather the cost is worth it or not it would have to be looked at


Try @Charlie from wmass you can PM him.

andrewfb1

Thanks @clammy for the vent suggestion… Will def do that. Agreed on the hanger. They all got removed during demo but will put up proper ones soon. Agreed with @EBEBRATT-Ed really no banging - had some a couple years ago bc a flat pipe in ceiling of my kitchen and the return one was sagging in the basement too but I solved. The heat is nice downstairs and all the piping in the walls are properly insulated. 

@EBEBRATT-Ed thanks for the @Charlie from wmass suggestion. Charlie I’ll message you.

The return pipe would be ideal to move. Hopefully not too much work but I understand the Mainline will be so will def leave that alone. 

Mad Dog_2

You need a heating pro there to assess and evaluate everything.   Mad Dog

Danny Scully

Ok In terms of picture 2:
-drop return below floor at right of opening, being sure to add a main vent before you drop. You can use floor drain style channel in the floor to keep the pipe accessible.
-raise the main (“other”) to ceiling at left of opening, adding a drip into the return at left of opening as well. Give main slight pitch along ceiling, then drop back into existing main at right of opening. 

-Skim, skim, skim.
-done. 

Long Beach Ed

Danny Scully said:

Ok In terms of picture 2:
-drop return below floor at right of opening, being sure to add a main vent before you drop. You can use floor drain style channel in the floor to keep the pipe accessible.
-raise the main (“other”) to ceiling at left of opening, adding a drip into the return at left of opening as well. Give main slight pitch along ceiling, then drop back into existing main at right of opening. 

-Skim, skim, skim.
-done. 

...Doesn't come cheap.

Danny Scully

And @Long Beach Ed? We’re not @andrewfb1 ‘s CFO. He didn’t ask for anything cheap, just a solution. There’s your solution. 

andrewfb1

@Danny Scully thanks for the suggestions!