Welcome! Here are the website rules, as well as some tips for using this forum.
Need to contact us? Visit https://heatinghelp.com/contact-us/.
Click here to Find a Contractor in your area.

Chicago Steam Boiler Defies Proper Piping But Works Very Well...NEW GAUGE report.

Options
JUGHNE
JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,105
edited January 2023 in THE MAIN WALL
Visiting my son's "new" house that he is remodeling, we worked on his boiler.

Open the M&M 67 (not terrible) and cleaned all ports, new sight glass, new reclaimed sight glass valves and rods.

Added nipple to get the pigtail up farther out of the water line, sight glass blow down, o-5PSI gauge.




Simply two 2" steam risers out of boiler, one goes left and one right. Each run around the basement and returns drop to the boiler return piping.
No header, no equalizer, no HL.
He upgraded the EOM vents to a Gorton G2 each.






The asbestos was abated and he insulated with 1" FG.

Having inherited my first copy of Dan's LAOSH, he calculated the connected EDR and reported it was close to the nameplate.

Does anyone know the age of this standing pilot boiler ??

IIRC, the house is from the 1920's.

This is the first pressure control I have seen that is not HW.

He had all the CI rads blasted and power coated.
Never have seen smooth CI like these.
He changed all the steam supply valves and air vents.

The system is absolutely quiet, he can only hear a slight hiss from rad vents and a little hiss from the G-2's.

It shuts down only by the tstat, the 0-5 PSI never moves.
So I guess a 0-32" gauge is in order.





WMno57

Comments

  • spudwrench2
    spudwrench2 Member Posts: 22
    Options
    I don't know about the finer points of steam, but there's no drip leg on the gas line for that water heater. Arguably a safety issue if debris makes its way into the gas valve.
    JUGHNE
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,105
    Options
    Thank you. Good point, I didn't notice.
    I will lecture the boy on that, especially since he just changed the WH.
    Probably should get a better gas stop as well.
  • PC7060
    PC7060 Member Posts: 1,240
    edited December 2022
    Options
    Sounds like a cool project.  Is the house close
    to yours? Nice work on the radiators, look great. 

    I did the same to the original units in my house but still need to get 4 units I added done. The new ones use the bolts and I’m a bit shy about powder coating until I figure out if the radiators have paper gaskets. 
  • WMno57
    WMno57 Member Posts: 1,408
    Options
    JUGHNE said:

    Does anyone know the age of this standing pilot boiler ??

    Blowing up the photo of the tag I get:
    Boiler Model No - E4
    Series Number - 3
    WM has some documentation on their site for discontinued product, but I'm not familiar enough with their product history to figure it out.
    https://www.weil-mclain.com/products/discontinued-products



    JUGHNE
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,105
    Options
    Pat, it is another long distance drive...... to Chicago.....from you know where I live.

    The son did all of the work involved in the remodel.

    He did do plumbing while forced (child labor) to work for dad.
    Now has a coffee cup labeled "Last Responder"....business is good in that city.


    Wm, thanks for that. I cannot decipher anything from that site.
    I am sure someone knows.
    Did notice that a zip code is not included after Indiana.
    PC7060
  • The Steam Whisperer
    The Steam Whisperer Member Posts: 1,219
    Options
    I checked my old Weil Mc Lain Discontinued parts catalog and the E boiler Series 3 was made from May 1970 to August 1975. These are the old push nipple design, IIRC, and built like tanks. The velocity in those risers is so low ( about 13.5 ft/sec) that any potential carryover water just drops back into the boiler. I haven't seen one of those in a long time here in Chicago.
    To learn more about this professional, click here to visit their ad in Find A Contractor.
    Long Beach Ed
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,105
    Options

    The 70's seem right.

    That was my guess, that between a fair steam chest and 2 risers, this NBP is successful.

    He does blow down weekly and did add a good full port drain valve on the front, near the burners.
    He will use it until it leaks.

    If that happens, he has your number, David.

    Thank you.
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,835
    Options
    @JUGHNE

    I have seen a few of those White Rogers pressure controls. Not many but once in a while. Once in a while we used to run into "mercoid" pressure controls the round ones but those we mostly used on commercial because they were $$$$.

    The older boiler would work sometimes even if they were not piped textbook

    Drip legs on gas have limited value. New York city they outlawed them so people in adjacent apartment building can't use them to steal gas.
    PC7060
  • PC7060
    PC7060 Member Posts: 1,240
    Options
    Drip legs on gas have limited value. New York city they outlawed them so people in adjacent apartment building can't use them to steal gas.
    Drip legs best value is getting check box next to PASS on inspection!
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,105
    Options
    True, but some codes do not allow drips on RTU....but then the pipe is coming up from the bottom.

    In my limited experience of removing drips from NG lines, I did find one full of water.
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,105
    Options
    So the 0-5 PSI gauge was replaced with 0-32 ounces.

    It also does not move, no pressure showing.

    Both gauges were mouth pressure checked to that they were not stuck.

    Boiler running until tstat shuts down.

    This is a rarity for discussions that show up here.
    PC7060mattmia2
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,835
    Options
    Sounds like it's running well. No drip legs allowed outside here. If they had water they could freeze and crack.....causing a gas leak of course
    JUGHNE
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 5,792
    Options
    I always wondered just how much dirt was getting thrown around in the gas lines, always seemed kind of crazy. Not much oxygen in there to rust either I imagine.

    Nice that it's the right size. For the work I put into my drop header, it never sees a drop of carryover unless I purposely foul my water for test purposes so I can see this would be fine.

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

  • Long Beach Ed
    Long Beach Ed Member Posts: 1,215
    Options
    The 𝘥𝘳𝘪𝘱 𝘭𝘦𝘨𝘴 are a holdover from the days of manufactured gas which often contained excessive moisture.
    CLambmattmia2
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 5,792
    Options
    Thanks. Where did the water go that collected there? I don't see an overflow :sweat_smile:

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,105
    Options
    Finally the 0-32 oz gauge is fluttering a little.

    He is concerned about no pressure building....but heats the house fine.

    I said that is the "Nirvana" point of steam heating and to be happy. B)
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,949
    Options
    JUGHNE said:

    Finally the 0-32 oz gauge is fluttering a little.

    He is concerned about no pressure building....but heats the house fine.

    I said that is the "Nirvana" point of steam heating and to be happy. B)

    Or a cracked boiler.
  • Long Beach Ed
    Long Beach Ed Member Posts: 1,215
    edited February 2023
    Options

    Thanks. Where did the water go that collected there? I don't see an overflow :sweat_smile:

    You don't service your drips? It was supposed to evaporate. Or be removed by legions of gas line minions.

    The national codes for gas piping don't require sediment traps at illuminating appliances, ranges, clothes dryers, or outdoor grills. This leaves furnaces, boilers, and water heaters.

    Actually, municipalities had (or have) "gas drips" in street supply lines. The utility's agents would travel around and drain them with a sucker. On Long Island, they still do.


    CLamb
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,105
    Options
    IIRC, when there, we did flood the boiler.
    He can check again later in the year.
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,835
    Options
    @ethicalpaul

    The "drip" or "dirt pocket" serves or served two purposes. Collected dirt to keep it out of gas valves and regulators.

    And collected any moisture in the gas. This is a holdover from the days of "manufactured" gas and when natural gas was not as dry as it now is. The idea was that the moisture would fill the drip leg and shut down the appliance. Then the drip could be taken off and emptied.

    In my 46 years I have found a little dirt and never more than a couple of drops of liquid.

    Years ago when I started it was common to pipe the gas from the meter and any the the gas line was droped or elbowed down a tee was put at the bottom for a drip. This is seldom seen any more as I was told the inspectors don't require it because the gas is dry although some fitters think it still needs to be done.