Need radiator trap part number

Tim Schram_2

Hi,

looking to see if anyone can help with the model or part number for a 90 degree radiator steam trap in 1/2” that fails in the closed position.  This is in a apartment with a drop down steam supply and it would help out a lot to not have to knock on several apartment doors on every floor looking for the failed trap in the open position.

thanks

reggi

What City and what year was the building built ?

Jamie Hall

Any markings on the trap? Who made it? Model number? Anything useful like that?

mattmia2

I think they are asking for a trap that is more likely to fail closed rather than fail open rather than for an exact replacement for their current trap(which i don't think exists because the calibrated liquid leaking out of the element is always going to be a common failure mode).

Vapor systems were popular because they solve this problem. The way to solve your problem is to put a vaporstat on the boiler so you can keep the pressure regulated very low and consistent and to put orifice plates in the inlet of the radiator sized based on your pressure and the size of the radiator. The idea is that the orifice plate only lets as much steam in to the radiator as it can consume so the steam never reaches the trap. For an orifice to regulate the amount of something the pressure has to be known.

reggi

I think Lassie is trying to tell us Timmy was climbing Johnsons hill and stepped on the old dry well cover and fell through and is trapped...Is that right girl?

reggi

If you had to check some apartments on other floors for a failed open trap I'd have to assume they would be on floors above the radiator with the failed closed trap ? 
Isn't there enough time to pull off the cap and disc, then quickly replace the cap or does the pipe start shooting out condensate like a geyser from the pressure above?  If I'm following you on this now..

mattmia2

I think the issue is that giving notice to the tenants of multiple apartments that you need to enter their apartment, getting a response from them, waiting the minimum amount of time for notice and working around when they will give you access for multiple apartments is time consuming and complicated.

Jamie Hall

reggi said:

If you had to check some apartments on other floors for a failed open trap I'd have to assume they would be on floors above the radiator with the failed closed trap ? 
Isn't there enough time to pull off the cap and disc, then quickly replace the cap or does the pipe start shooting out condensate like a geyser from the pressure above?  If I'm following you on this now..

One might think so, but it doesn't work that way. If there is a failed open trap, it will affect all the radiation attached to the same return line, since what the failed trap does is pressurise that return line, preventing air or steam from entering the other radiation. There is no gravity affect involved here -- the height of the line doesn't matter. On the condensate, that will all have gone down to the level of the wet returns and the boiler -- there will be very little condensate in the line at any given moment. Condensate, unlike steam or air, is affected by gravity.

Tim Schram_2

Mattmia is right on.  I am replacing failed traps and want to put ones in that would fail closed.  It’s a giant pain in the **** locating a bad trap in this building.  All of the steam mains go all the way up to the top of the building and are not exposed at all.  We know a trap is failed when we have live steam coming down a dry return in a two pipe down feed, but the problem is that we have to notify and try to coordinate all of the apartment tenants for access because there are 3-4 radiators on each floor connected to this dry return which means up to 24 radiators to check.  

Tim Schram_2

EBEBRATT-Ed

@Tim Schram_2

Depending on how many traps you have your best bet to save time would be to get on a trap program. Just replace all the traps at the same time. Then rig up a test station in the basement and test the ones you removed

pedmec

As @ebratt has said and I can testify to the best approach is to just replace all the traps at once. Then your can get on a maintenance program and replace all the cage units every 5 years or so. Searching for bad traps is time consuming and a waste. With other bad traps in the system you can be destroying the new traps as your installing them.

I have a building with over 225 thermostatic traps. Was having the same problem as you in regards to access to the units and coordinating with maintenance. No matter how many bills we sent them it didn't seem to register with the board. I had to set up a meeting with all the board members. I needed to explain to them the situation because telling the contact person on the property didn't sound like it was getting passed along properly.

After they understood what i was saying and had a better understanding of how their system functioned we got approval to replace all the thermostatic traps. Some of them were so old i couldn't find cage units for them anyway. It was shocking to find the neglect went on for so long. But now the system runs like a champ. Everybody has steam where before it was like a tug of war. Cut the complaints down in half. Unfortunately the wouldn't spend the money to replace all the thermostatic radiator valves. So some people still have to open up their windows.

On a side note which i realized after my meeting. My contact at the condo was the person that was most against the trap upgrade to my surprise. The meeting was a real eye opener because she never said anything against replacing the traps. i had no idea that was her stance as i always had a good relationship with her. So having the meeting allowed us to get past her and have all the traps replaced.