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Why can't I find this part?

MikeAmann
MikeAmann Member Posts: 645
edited September 12 in Oil Heating
I am looking for an inline fuel oil shutoff valve for 3/8" copper line with both Male and Female FLARE ends (one end connecting to a tee). Or it can be Male/Male. Mom's line is leaking (I have to redo the flare) and want to add a shutoff while I am working on it. Thanks.

Comments

  • 109A_5
    109A_5 Member Posts: 398
    Isn't there a shut off at the tank ? And those valves are usually a safety Fusible shut off so they are special, you don't want to bypass the safety feature at either end of the fuel line tubing.

    Sounds strange, "Male and Female FLARE ends" usually the tubing is a female flare. Maybe you could build up what you want with mostly pipe thread fittings and then a pipe thread fitting to flare adapter(s).

    Could you take pictures to explain better ?
    National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
    Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
    One Pipe System
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 15,637
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • MikeAmann
    MikeAmann Member Posts: 645
    Thanks guys.
    Mom has a boiler and hot water heater - both oil-fired.
    A flare tee was added to feed the HW heater when the tankless coil failed decades ago. https://www.supplyhouse.com/Bluefin-FLT038-3-8-Brass-Flare-Tee
    Each burner has it's own fir-o-matic shutoff valve.
    I just want to add a ball valve to the 3/8" copper line before the tee.

    Can I use this GAS valve? https://www.supplyhouse.com/Everflow-FTGV-38R38R-3-8-Flare-Gas-Ball-Valve
    With this adapter? https://www.supplyhouse.com/Bluefin-FLS038-3-8-Brass-Female-Flare-Swivel



  • MikeAmann
    MikeAmann Member Posts: 645
    @109A_5
    Such a valve does exist.

  • 109A_5
    109A_5 Member Posts: 398
    Hello @MikeAmann,

    I did not say it did not exist, I said it "Sounds strange". And maybe the 'Tee' was part of the assembly you wanted. The Yellow Jacket product above by the description may suite your needs, however I think it is intended for refrigeration work. Since the one fitting is knurled and not a hex I would not recommend it for the purpose you would want to use it for.

    The two parts you found at supplyhouse.com (the valve and a short tube with pre-made flares) would be more suited for what you want to do since it appears they are all brass and should not have much issues with the fuel. I don't know if they make valves like you want that are specifically rated for low pressure fuel.

    Example, this valve is rated for liquid fuel. But does not have a flare fittings.

    https://www.supplyhouse.com/Apollo-Valves-8010401-3-4-NPT-Bronze-Shut-Off-Ball-Valve-30-Cv

    National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
    Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
    One Pipe System
  • MikeAmann
    MikeAmann Member Posts: 645
    I agree. I figure that if it can stand up to gas, then it should have no problem with low pressure fuel oil.
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 6,591
    The way gas attacks seals is very different than the way oil attacks seals. You need a valve that is rated for oil.
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 6,591
    You could always use an npt valve and flare adapters or an npt valve and tee and adapt that assembly to flare to connect to the tubing. The latter is probably how i'd do it.
  • MikeAmann
    MikeAmann Member Posts: 645
    edited September 13
    I will stop at FW Webb tomorrow and ask them.
    It seems to me that these oil shutoff valves were available everywhere not too long ago.
    I have one on my own oil line. The only difference is that the handle is blue.
    I believe that I got it at one of the big box stores. Nothing anywhere now.

    The NPT valves are rated for oil, water & air. I might have to assemble a bunch of fittings. (Frowny face)
  • MikeAmann
    MikeAmann Member Posts: 645
    edited September 13
    This is where it gets confusing. Looks like the same valve, same ratings. For oil and gas.
    Incoming oil line shut off ball valve, 3/8" flare is for installation of external fuel supply system for all Laser & Oil Miser Vented Heaters.
    https://www.ruralenergy.com/parts/toyostove/1wme1-ball-valve-38-flare-shut-off-valve
  • 109A_5
    109A_5 Member Posts: 398
    Looks similar, the handle and the handle retainer hardware is different. Who knows what is in it.

    Another thing, two valves may be identical, same internal workings, same alloy, etc. If the manufacture has to pay to get it certified for a more critical purpose the cost of the valve will be more. So the same exact valve, two prices.

    I like your FW Webb idea.

    National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
    Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
    One Pipe System
    MikeAmann
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 5,869
    The fusible link valve (firomatic) is the only shut-off you should use (by code). Either get female threads and get the flare adapters, or get the male flared one and use your coupling (one more leak path).
    steve
  • MikeAmann
    MikeAmann Member Posts: 645
    I was surfing and found that HomeDepot's gas ball valves with the yellow handle are rated for oil as well as.....
    The 1-Piece Gas Ball Valve by ProLine Series is safe for use with LP gas, natural gas, oil (flammable liquids) and traditional plumbing applications (water).
    https://www.homedepot.com/p/3-8-in-x-1-2-in-Brass-FL-x-FPT-1-Piece-Gas-Valve-114-522HN/320668478#overlay
  • 109A_5
    109A_5 Member Posts: 398
    I guess it is partially what you are looking for.
    National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
    Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
    One Pipe System
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 5,869
    MikeAmann said:

    I was surfing and found that HomeDepot's gas ball valves with the yellow handle are rated for oil as well as.....
    The 1-Piece Gas Ball Valve by ProLine Series is safe for use with LP gas, natural gas, oil (flammable liquids) and traditional plumbing applications (water).
    https://www.homedepot.com/p/3-8-in-x-1-2-in-Brass-FL-x-FPT-1-Piece-Gas-Valve-114-522HN/320668478#overlay

    Still not code. Confused why people are trying to help someone do something against code.
    steve
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 6,591
    Code requires even valves that are not required shutoffs at a tank or appliance but just for convenience in a distribution system to also be firomatic?
  • MikeAmann
    MikeAmann Member Posts: 645
    edited September 17
    Massachusetts says NO. In MA code is you need a manual valve and a firomatic valve at the tank.
    And all of the oil tank valves listed here are NOT firomatic: https://www.supplyhouse.com/Oil-Tank-Valves-10141000

    And I found this: https://www.geminivalve.com/ball-valve-markings/
    Gas Ratings
    Only certain ball valves are approved for use with combustible gases, and these will have specific markings that explain where they can be used. Some of these include:

    Indoor Gas Ratings:

    ½ PSIG (PSI gauge): This low pressure rating is used for gas valves that are used in appliances.
    5G: This is a higher pressure rating for valves used in household gas piping systems.
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 3,321
    MikeAmann said:
    Massachusetts says NO. In MA code is you need a manual valve and a firomatic valve at the tank. And all of the oil tank valves listed here are NOT firomatic: https://www.supplyhouse.com/Oil-Tank-Valves-10141000 And I found this: https://www.geminivalve.com/ball-valve-markings/ Gas Ratings Only certain ball valves are approved for use with combustible gases, and these will have specific markings that explain where they can be used. Some of these include: Indoor Gas Ratings: ½ PSIG (PSI gauge): This low pressure rating is used for gas valves that are used in appliances. 5G: This is a higher pressure rating for valves used in household gas piping systems.
    No specify natural or LP?

    in my area copper is not allowed on Natural so flairs are our!
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 12,620
    You can use a ball valve in Massachusetts on oil but it must be in addition to the required Firomatic valves ...not in place of. The valve should be rated WOG....water .oil. gas
  • MikeAmann
    MikeAmann Member Posts: 645


    It took way too much searching, but I found what I was looking for: https://www.amazon.com/245SS-Forged-Valve-Standard-600WOG/dp/B07DVDZPL5/ref=asc_df_B07DVDZPL5/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=241996632632&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=12050999371120666264&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9061286&hvtargid=pla-493107455659&th=1

    NIGO Industrial Co. 245SS Series Forged Brass Ball Valve, Standard Port, Rated to 600WOG (3/8 inch male flare x 3/8 inch male flare)
    Standard port
    CSA(AGA/CGA) certified
    Blowout proof stem design
    Rated to 600 PSI WOG

    Product Description
    Products Features

    * CSA approved manually operated gas valve for use in house piping system, appliances, appliance connector valves and hose end valves

    * All Nigo's products conform to specifications ASTM (American Society for Testing and Materials) B124 and B16

    * NPT threads on all Nigo's products meet ASME B1.20.1

    * Designed for use in air, water, oil, nature, manufactured, mixed, liquefied petroleum or propane and LP Gas-Air

    * Use with brass, steel, and iron pipe; Teflon tape and thread sealant are recommended for threaded joints

    * Temperatures range from -40 to 125 F

    * Max. Pressure: 600 PSI WOG

    * Full port design

    * Blowout proof stem

    * Forged Brass Shut-off Valve with 3/8 Inch Male Flare x 3/8 Inch Male Flare

    * DO NOT use pipe dope or tape on flare connection

  • MikeAmann
    MikeAmann Member Posts: 645
    And here it is installed. It is just for convenience. Each oil burner has it's own firomatic valve.


    WMno57109A_5