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Slant Fin Victory 120 pilot assembly ?

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Comments

  • andrewkelly1983
    andrewkelly1983 Member Posts: 31
    Currently the call
    for heat is coming from the hot water system trying to kick on the boiler. I have not tried to see if it will start up using the thermostat in the house.
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 7,216
    Start with a real voltmeter. That being a powered vent boiler there are a lot of safeties that have to be satisfied before it will try to fire the burner.

    Also replace that condensate tube above the combination control before it leaks in the control and you are replacing the control, not just a $2 piece of tubing(depending on where it goes that in itself could be your problem).
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 4,999
    edited September 2022
    @109A_5 has a good detail description of what should happen. Sometimes hearing the same explaination from a different source can make a point that was missed the first go around

    Understanding electrical circuitry can be very confusing and knowing the proper Sequence of Operation will help to diagnose the reason for the system failure. There are many steps in the Sequence of Operation (SOO) and if any one step fails to work, then you will not have a successful result. Each step is there for a reason. Understanding the reason can be helpful. You don't want a flame if it is not safe to have a flame. So, all the steps in the SOO must happen in order so the next step can happen.


    Sequence of operation
    1. Call for heat or hot water. This is a set of electrical contacts in a thermostat that will close when there is a drop in temperature. the thermostat can be in the room or the water tank (sometimes called an aquastat)
    2. The boiler control (Hydrolevel 3200) makes some internal sensor readings and if the boiler water level is not too low and the boiler temperature is not too high, then both circulator and burner terminals are energizes with voltage. 2a. terminals C1 and C2 will get 120 V. to operate the circulator pump and 2b. Terminals B1 and B2 will get 24 volts to operate the gas valve circuit.
    3. The Inducer motor relay will then activate and the inducer motor will operate. (I think you are successful up to this point)
    4. The inducer motor operates and when there is enough air pressure measured by the Pressure switch (5) then the next step. (if there is not enough pressure then the next step does not happen. (This is something to check with a meter See *5 below)
    5. The pressure switch closes and makes electrical contact to send power to the roll out switch 6. If the roll out switch is closed then go to step 6. If the roll out switch is open then the next step does not happen (This is something to check with a meter See *6 below)
    6. 24 Volt power then passes thru the roll out switch
    7. 24 Volts is delivered to the S8600 control to start the burner SOO. If there is not 24 V. power to the control then check steps 4, 5 and 6 above
    8. Spark happens at the pilot assy. 8
    9. 24 volts is provided to PV and MV/PV on the S8600. this will open the pilot valve on the gas valve
    10. Once the pilot is lit, the spark wire then turns into a sensor wire. the flame signal is sent back to the S8600
    11. Mv and MV/PV get 24 V. to open the main gas valve for the burner top operate.




    Edward Young Retired HVAC Contractor & HYDRONICIAN Services first oil burner at age 16 P/T trainer for EH-CC.org
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 4,999
    edited September 2022
    *5. The test to see if the air prover switch is open when it should be closed, the air blower inducer motor must be running. Set the meter to read voltage at a scale that will register up to 200 volts. Place a meter test lead on one of the wire terminals of the switch. Place the other test lead on the other wire terminal. The meter should read 0 volts (or something very close to zero on a digital meter) if the circuit is closed. If the switch is open, the meter will read 24 V. and the electrical current will not pass to the next step in SOO. If this happens, you can place a temporary jumper wire across the wire connectors and see if the spark will happen
    Solid line leads are to indicate where the test leads should be connected for the test. the dashed test leads illustrate where the test leads go in the wiring diagram.

    *6. The test to see if the spill switch is open when it should be closed, the air blower inducer motor must be running. Set the meter to read voltage at a scale that will register up to 200 volts. Place a meter test lead on one of the wire terminals of the switch. Place the other test lead on the other wire terminal. The meter should read 0 volts (or something very close to zero on a digital meter) if the circuit is closed. If the switch is open, the meter will read 24 V. and the electrical current will not pass to the next step in SOO. If this happens, you can place a temporary jumper wire across the wire connectors and see if the spark will happen
    Solid line leads are to indicate where the test leads should be connected for the test. the dashed test leads illustrate where the test leads go in the wiring diagram.

    I hope this helps

    IMPORTANT EDIT

    If you places a temporary jumper on any safety control to test the operation of the system, YOU MUST REMOVE THAT JUMPER WHEN YOUR TEST IS COMPLETED. NEVER LEAVE A TEST JUMPER ON A BURNER UNATTENDED.
    If you discover that a safety control is preventing the safe operation of the burner, then you must solve the problem that is detected by that safety control or device. Clearing a blocked chimney flue, or replacing a defective part is important to the safe operation of your heater.
    Edward Young Retired HVAC Contractor & HYDRONICIAN Services first oil burner at age 16 P/T trainer for EH-CC.org
  • 109A_5
    109A_5 Member Posts: 487
    edited September 2022
    Hello andrewkelly1983,

    I should have stressed it more, if the Inducer Motor is running that eliminates a lot. You need 24 VAC to energize the Inducer Motor Relay. If there is not 24 VAC at the S8600 controller, it limits it to bad wires, crimped wire terminations, Roll-Out switch and the Air Proving Switch left. If the Air Proving Switch is open check that the tube and ports are not plugged and the hose is intact (no leaks). See notes in picture.


    National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
    Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
    One Pipe System
    EdTheHeaterMan
  • 109A_5
    109A_5 Member Posts: 487
    Hello @andrewkelly1983,

    Just as a note; it appears from your pictures your boiler may fall in-between or prior to the manual versions I have looked at for reference. I base this on the S8600 controller, the Gas Valve model and the older style Aquastat. Although I have seen bad solder connections at the relay in that style Aquastat, in this case since you stated the Inducer Motor runs the possible no power to the S8600 controller problem is the immediate focus. And the parts and circuit previously mention should be the focus.
    National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
    Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
    One Pipe System
    EdTheHeaterMan
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 4,999
    edited September 2022
    In this type of air blower inducer, I have found that this port can get blocked with corrosion. (Yellow Circle) The blockage is a crust that forms on the inside of the blower housing. Carefully remove the tubing from the barb fitting and then use a thin wire coat hanger inserted into the center of the barb fitting to push the blockage away. Then replace the hose on the barb fitting.

    If the coat hanger is too big to fit, Then a large paperclip should do the trick.
    Edward Young Retired HVAC Contractor & HYDRONICIAN Services first oil burner at age 16 P/T trainer for EH-CC.org
  • andrewkelly1983
    andrewkelly1983 Member Posts: 31
    Thanks again for the detailed answers and description of the operation procedure. I am going to have to read it a few times and process it! 
    The part you circled , the plastic tube going into the air blower was actually either melted or somehow dried into that blackened color. 
    I am not sure how or why that happened but it’s concerning. 
    When my friend came today he tried to bypass the air proving switch but it still would not ignite . 

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 7,216
    i'm not sure what control that has but modern microprocessor controls need to see the pressure switch in both states at the point in the cycle where they expect it to make sure it is working and didn't just get stuck.
  • 109A_5
    109A_5 Member Posts: 487
    Hello @andrewkelly1983,

    When my friend came today he tried to bypass the air proving switch but it still would not ignite .

    After the air proving switch bypass was not fruitful did he bypass the Roll-Out switch ? If either of these switches are open (they are wired in series) you will not get power to the S8600 controller. If the Roll-Out switch is open there could be a flue draft or inducer fan issue, or it was just old and tired.

    the plastic tube going into the air blower was actually either melted or somehow dried into that blackened color. 
    I am not sure how or why that happened but it’s concerning. 
    Apparently in later versions they extended the inducer fan housing port that goes to the air proving switch with a short piece of aluminum tubing. Once you get the boiler running I would just replace the tube with silicone tubing, it will tolerate the heat better. The condensate tube could be replaced too, don't forget the water trap loop.

    On some versions of the S8600 controller there is a status LED (Yellow Circle) and the flash definitions (Red Square). Once power gets to the S8600 controller there should be some sign of life.



    National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
    Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
    One Pipe System
  • 109A_5
    109A_5 Member Posts: 487
    Hello @andrewkelly1983,

    I'm saddened that your anxiety level is escalating. A good Tech should be able to find the electrical defect in a matter of minutes. Bypass testing can work but going through the actual few items in the circuit with a Voltmeter is often more thorough. Most meters will also do continuity tests as another means of verificaton. With an inexpensive multi-meter from Harbor Freight, Lowes, Home Depot, etc. would help find the defect fast and you could sell it after if you don't want it.

    Almost as fast as your are reading this, measuring the few items during a call for heat or DHW, the two safety switches should have 0 Volts across their terminals and the S8600 should have 24 VAC. If the S8600 has 0 VAC (suspected) then one of the safety switches will have 24 VAC or there is a bad wire or crimp connector. That's it.

    I suspect once this is resolved the boiler will probably work. There may be nothing wrong with the other parts.

    The way I see it a multi-meter is way cheaper and faster than a new boiler.

    I presently suspect your Roll-Out Switch is bad but I can't prove it from here.

    National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
    Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
    One Pipe System
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 7,216
    Replace that rotten tubing too before you are done. It will cause you a problem at some unexpected point.

    Like others have said this is 5 minutes with a voltmeter and the schematic for anyone that knows what they are doing.