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Lochinvar parts conundrum

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beezer
beezer Member Posts: 21
edited August 2022 in THE MAIN WALL
WBN 080 --- There is a rubber grommet that fits between the exhaust pipe and the burner can/heat exchanger that I can't identify by part number. there is a picture of the part in the exploded view, but no number. I called the factory and the guy I talked to said if it doesn't have a number, it's probably part of another assembly. At first I thought it was maybe part of the bolt on stack fitting, but now I'm thinking its part of the heat exchanger??? page 2 of the parts book is attached below. part in question is the little circle right below the last "E" in the word exchanger.

heres a couple pictures of the offending member:





I doubt that this was glued or bonded to the exchanger by the look of it. it appears to be a simple slip on.

Comments

  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 23,554
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    Parts diagrams can drive one nuts. However... I notice, looking at that one, that the widget associated your little seal also has another seal associated with it -- and that neither seal, not the widget, has a part number.

    Which, if this were a tractor or something like that, would lead me to assume that there was another parts diagram somewhere which had the widget and its gaskets on it -- or that they were called out in the associated parts list, without a number.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    GGross
  • 109A_5
    109A_5 Member Posts: 1,388
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    As @Jamie Hall, suggested, look at this file. It is a like system and has more info. Can't say if the part numbers would be relevant to your unit.

    13 MSC3007 FLUE TRANSITION ALL
    30 PVC2047 FLUE CONNECTION 2” WB50-105

    If all else fails may be a high temperature "O" ring or two could be fitted there. Looks like a leak there could be a CO hazard.
    National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
    Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
    One Pipe System
  • pedmec
    pedmec Member Posts: 994
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    looks like its part of the flue transition as noted part #msc3007
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,382
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    Is it damaged, over heated and brittle? If so it could tie in with the fan issue you had earlier, or burner not adjusted properly

    Is that the exhaust side pipe? Is it discoloring, turning beige? That too indicates over fired or excessive flue gas temperature, perhaps
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • beezer
    beezer Member Posts: 21
    edited August 2022
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    "neither seal, not the widget, has a part number.".... true. we can see the picture but no part numbers

    MSC3007 ---- YES--- that shows the part I need. BIG question... does it have it's own part number or can you only get it by buying the whole wad?

    yes... that seal keeps combustion gas out of the house, including monoxide. and yes... it is totally hosed

    and yes, I read the flue gas numbers and they are right on the money.... but the propeller noise continues (sometimes)

    right now, I have 2 wraps of foil tape over the connection. that may be the final solution.

    the pipe glue was orange. the color change on the PVC looks like no problem to me. I could be wrong, but it hasn't changed in 16-17(?) years. have to look but its been a long time since I did it (dang, time flies... what a good little boiler)


  • 109A_5
    109A_5 Member Posts: 1,388
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    beezer said:

    I called the factory and the guy I talked to said if it doesn't have a number, it's probably part of another assembly. At first I thought it was maybe part of the bolt on stack fitting, but now I'm thinking its part of the heat exchanger???

    https://www.parts4heating.com/Lochinvar-MSC3007-FLUE-TRANSITION-ALL-p/msc3007.htm
    beezer said:

    right now, I have 2 wraps of foil tape over the connection. that may be the final solution.

    Might be my final solution too. However, what shape is the other gasket in ?

    National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
    Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
    One Pipe System
    beezer
  • beezer
    beezer Member Posts: 21
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    the old gasket is hosed. it was definitely leaking. that is the part, thanks.
  • 109A_5
    109A_5 Member Posts: 1,388
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    beezer said:

    the old gasket is hosed. it was definitely leaking.

    109A_5 said:

    However, what shape is the other gasket in ?

    The the gasket or seal between the Flue Transition and the Flue Connection that you pictured is bad. What I was getting at here is, what condition is the gasket or seal between the Heat Exchanger and the Flue Transition in (the bigger diameter gasket or seal) ?

    There may be a reason they sell the three pieces as a set. If the gasket(s) or seal(s) are made of a similar material they may dilapidate at a similar rate. Not sure why you would need a new Flue Transition piece. Maybe they warp or crack or some other dilapidation occurs with time, and it is just good practice to replace it all as a set.

    National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
    Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
    One Pipe System
    beezer
  • HomerJSmith
    HomerJSmith Member Posts: 2,479
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    Maybe it's time for Hi-temp silicone?
    beezer
  • beezer
    beezer Member Posts: 21
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    can't see the other gasket without removing the burner can. I'm not doing that unless I have new replacements in hand. they are ordered... we'll see
    109A_5
  • beezer
    beezer Member Posts: 21
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    OK.... report: yes, the inner gasket is also roached. big time. pretty sure that was the major cause of the noise.

    2 other things.... first:
    the heat exchanger drain line. it was 75% full of "coffee grounds". the periodic maintenance procedure says to "Clean condensate trap"... which I do a few times a year. there is never anything of substance in the trap. It also says to check the condensate drain (and shows pictures of the line running to the neutralizer). theres more to it than that,,, when I clean the combustion chamber, I follow what they said about a nonmetallic brush and using a vacuum to clean the chamber. BUT, it also says... "Using a clean cloth dampened with warm water, wipe out the combustion chamber. Rinse out debris with a low pressure water supply". Guess I did not pay enough attention to the part about "rinse out with low pressure water". maybe you guys all know this, but didn't even register. anyway, when I got the exchanger out on the porch and started shooting it with the hose, a bunch of stuff came out the drain. granted, it's been running over a decade without that kind of a rinse like that but I can see that this is going to be a requirement. not enough emphasis on running water through slots between the coils in the book.

    2nd: to replace the flue transition piece you have to remove the heat exchanger. to do that, you have to break the water connections. which pretty much guarantees destroying the gaskets in the fittings. good luck finding those. not listed or shown in the parts book. there is a "cleaning kit" P/N lochinvar 100157626 but I can not find a parts break out of what is in the kit. I found a couple pix... its a rotary brush and a rod to chuck into a drill. no idea if thats whats reallly in the kit.

    so... if anyone knows the number on those gaskets, I like to know too. the OD is about 1.22". ID is about .090, its about .060 thick. the originals were some kind of hard paper composite

    pix:
    ex-gasket (mostly gone)



    the flu transition housing is dis- bonding too...



    coffee grounds:



  • 109A_5
    109A_5 Member Posts: 1,388
    edited August 2022
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    Now we all know why they sell the flue transition and seals in a kit.
    beezer said:

    2nd: to replace the flue transition piece you have to remove the heat exchanger. to do that, you have to break the water connections. which pretty much guarantees destroying the gaskets in the fittings. good luck finding those. not listed or shown in the parts book. there is a "cleaning kit" P/N lochinvar 100157626 but I can not find a parts break out of what is in the kit. I found a couple pix... its a rotary brush and a rod to chuck into a drill. no idea if thats whats reallly in the kit.

    so... if anyone knows the number on those gaskets, I like to know too. the OD is about 1.22". ID is about .090, its about .060 thick. the originals were some kind of hard paper composite

    Sometimes I find doing maintenance and repair of various equipment you have to make your own specialized tools and parts to accomplish the job. I do not know what those gaskets look like, I don't see them in the exploded diagram. Maybe you can make them from gasket paper available from automotive parts stores or other sources depending on the material needed.

    I wonder if there was another method (or different intended method) to get the heat exchanger out of the cabinet, like removing the near boiler piping at the install demarcation point and removing the side of the cabinet. That way the gaskets would not have been damaged and need replacement.

    Sometimes the crud does not end up where the engineers planed it to collect so other inspection, cleaning and maintenance is needed. Apparently good thorough inspection is the key here.

    Maybe with that style brush in the cleaning kit, the heat exchanger can be more thoroughly cleaned.

    Looks like it will run like new when you are done. :)

    National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
    Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
    One Pipe System
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,093
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    For these water tube exchangers, I remove the front door, rear target wall and then rinse with water.

    A credit card with small "saw teeth" cut into the edge will clear the coffee grounds stuck between the coils, which can then be washed down the drain hose.

    That cleaning kit might include a cover for the rear target wall, I remove it for protection.
    Also this exercises the small Allen screw threads which I apply Anti-seize to for the future.
  • beezer
    beezer Member Posts: 21
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    I put in a new cover for the rear wall this time as well. it is a different material & looks like it is not as easily damaged as the original ceramic "Styrofoam" piece. and yep, antiseize

    and, one more thing... the new flue transition piece is slightly different from my original. this one has a drain nipple cast in. my original did not. I had to block that one off. I thought about a T to the neutralizer line but the hose size is smaller and I'd have to make an adapter, etc... so no. at least right not now. I put a foot of radiator type hose on it and then a ball valve. then a smaller drain hose that goes through the bottom of the cabinet. I can keep an eye on it and it'll be easy to take a sample at any time if I feel like it