Welcome! Here are the website rules, as well as some tips for using this forum.
Need to contact us? Visit https://heatinghelp.com/contact-us/.
Click here to Find a Contractor in your area.

Is this considered bullheading a tee?

newtonkid88
newtonkid88 Member Posts: 100
edited July 2022 in THE MAIN WALL
Please take a look at the return lines to the boiler. Which drawing would be best regarding the 2 zones' return piping tees?
According to the people who installed my boiler, zone control, expansion tank, and zone sentry valve, only 1 zone can be active at a time, when I asked about the indirect HWH and baseboard heat.
There is currently 1 heating zone. I want to add a 2nd heating zone as shown in the drawing.

Comments

  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 20,525
    There will be a little more head loss in the upper diagram as compared with the lower -- but in a pumped system it's trivial.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 13,170
    In the first picture only the 1" tee between the manifolds is bull headed.

    What @Jamie Hall said
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 18,279
    I’d avoid the bull head if possible.
    But I’m more concerned about the pump/ expansion tank relationship😗
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    STEVEusaPAEdTheHeaterManSolid_Fuel_ManGGross
  • newtonkid88
    newtonkid88 Member Posts: 100
    edited July 2022
    hot_rod said:
    I’d avoid the bull head if possible.
    But I’m more concerned about the pump/ expansion tank relationship😗
    That’s how the oil company installed the pump and expansion tank 😕. Should the expansion tank and the boiler be sucked on by the pump? I’ll draw another picture tomorrow night
  • GroundUp
    GroundUp Member Posts: 1,496
    The first drawing is bullheaded and should be avoided, if possible. The rest of the piping is also questionable- two Spirovents? XT before Spirovent AND upside down? Circulator pumping toward XT? I mean, it'll work, but it's pretty shoddy.
  • newtonkid88
    newtonkid88 Member Posts: 100
    edited July 2022
    GroundUp said:
    The first drawing is bullheaded and should be avoided, if possible. The rest of the piping is also questionable- two Spirovents? XT before Spirovent AND upside down? Circulator pumping toward XT? I mean, it'll work, but it's pretty shoddy.
    Yup. I called the oil company to replace an old boiler. That’s how they plumbed it.

    To be fair, they were tying everything in to an existing monoflo loop. I dont know if that forced them to do it like that.
  • GGross
    GGross Member Posts: 412


    hot_rod said:

    I’d avoid the bull head if possible.
    But I’m more concerned about the pump/ expansion tank relationship😗

    That’s how the oil company installed the pump and expansion tank 😕. Should the expansion tank and the boiler be sucked on by the pump? I’ll draw another picture tomorrow night

    Yes, in Dan's book "Sucking on Boilers" which you can buy in th.......

    I'm sorry your explanation just made me laugh out loud, but yes that's the general idea, you will hear it referred to here as "Pumping Away"
    newtonkid88
  • I'd pipe it something like this:


    8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hourTwo btu/ per sq ft for degree difference for a slab
    newtonkid88
  • newtonkid88
    newtonkid88 Member Posts: 100
    edited July 2022

    I'd pipe it something like this:/>

    Thank you. I really don't want to touch the existing piping too much. If the only downside to my piping is that I'll have to bleed the radiators once a year, I'm okay with it.
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 18,279
    If you have trouble getting, or keeping the air and air noise out of the system, it would be worth correcting the piping. It might be easiest to just move the tank connection to the inlet side of the circulator.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • GroundUp
    GroundUp Member Posts: 1,496
    It just baffles me that oil companies are installing boilers out there. That's unheard of in my neck of the woods, but then again so is oil heat in general. The gas companies certainly don't do anything other than gas.
  • Bob Harper
    Bob Harper Member Posts: 959
    1" FNPT Malleable Iron Wye would be preferrable to tees.
    newtonkid88
  • newtonkid88
    newtonkid88 Member Posts: 100
    GroundUp said:
    It just baffles me that oil companies are installing boilers out there. That's unheard of in my neck of the woods, but then again so is oil heat in general. The gas companies certainly don't do anything other than gas.
    I’m in a city in MA that is usually very strict. The installers only required an inspection from the fire dept. 

    This company is actually an energy company. I only called them an oil company because i also needed an oil tank and they did that too.
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 18,279

    1" FNPT Malleable Iron Wye would be preferrable to tees.

    Nibco has some good options. A double ell is a good fitting. 1 X 3/4 X 3/4 only
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    Bob Harper
  • HomerJSmith
    HomerJSmith Member Posts: 1,927
    edited July 2022
    I think your drawings would benefit from using a ECM pump. Why two air eliminators? Maybe you should consider the placement of the ExTank.