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Crazy idea

Stormjib
Stormjib Member Posts: 1
Thinking about a block fire brick oven /pizza lined with some recycled cast iron radiators , maybe built into the walls in some manor piped into a 500/1000 buffer tank heating a home ? Crazy thought but oil is getting scary and out door boilers are illegal in my area but out side pizza ovens are not. 
JakeCK

Comments

  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 4,977
    edited June 2022
    I like the way you think. you will want to have some flower, mozzarella cheese, and marinara gravy on hand in case a code enforcement official stops by. You can offer him a slice!
    Edward Young Retired HVAC Contractor & HYDRONICIAN Services first oil burner at age 16 P/T trainer for EH-CC.org
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 18,222
    It takes a good sized fire box to get enough BTU for home heating. Look at the smallest OWF to get an idea of how much volume you need.

    Maybe a cast iron radiator for the grate, keep it in the hot coals.

    Start cutting now, you want dry wood to get a clean hot burn. A moisture meter is a good investment.

    Of course you will soon see that you need a buffer, or run out every couple hours to load wood :) It's not as easy as it sounds or looks keeping the heat on with outdoor wood burning.

    IF wood burning is in your future, look into one of the Euro parlor stoves/ boilers with gasification technology. Less wood, less smoke.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 4,977
    In order to "really" cook pizza, you want to get the firebox up to 750°, and I don't think that the water filled radiator will allow that temperature. If it does get that hot your oven/boiler will make steam and blow off the relief valve. So don't forget the relief valve.

    But I don't think you really want to cook pizza. As long as it looks like it can cook pizza is all you want. In order to make it more efficient than a typical pizza oven, you will want to insulate the exterior and have a closable fire door. Perhaps you could take an efficient wood burner design and make it look like a pizza oven.
    Edward Young Retired HVAC Contractor & HYDRONICIAN Services first oil burner at age 16 P/T trainer for EH-CC.org
    MaxMercy
  • MaxMercy
    MaxMercy Member Posts: 333

    In order to "really" cook pizza, you want to get the firebox up to 750°

    Yes, if you want *really* good pizza. I make pizza at home and can only get to a measured 525F in my electric oven and it does a pretty good job, but if you're a fan of NY/New Haven pizza, you need at least 700F to get there.

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 7,190
    MaxMercy said:

    In order to "really" cook pizza, you want to get the firebox up to 750°

    Yes, if you want *really* good pizza. I make pizza at home and can only get to a measured 525F in my electric oven and it does a pretty good job, but if you're a fan of NY/New Haven pizza, you need at least 700F to get there.

    hmm, i should try putting some tiles in my grill...
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 18,222
    over 3000 psi required to prevent water from boiling at 750F
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    EdTheHeaterMan
  • Hot_water_fan
    Hot_water_fan Member Posts: 1,012
    What about an indoor gasification boiler ?
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 18,222

    What about an indoor gasification boiler ?

    The gasification stove I posted above often have a HX add on for heating water. Usually a potable water application external to the stove. You see all sorts of these at the ISH show fireplace halls. When you see the bottom chamber those are gasification designs.

    Marc Caluwe imports different biomass products back in MA. Caluwe Biomass Systems woodchipboilers.com

    May as well make electricity and heat energy with a rig like this :), shown at his website.
    I think I spotted some Caleffi components on the machine.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    Hot_water_fan
  • leonz
    leonz Member Posts: 682
    edited June 2022
    Stormjib said:

    Thinking about a block fire brick oven /pizza lined with some recycled cast iron radiators , maybe built into the walls in some manor piped into a 500/1000 buffer tank heating a home ? Crazy thought but oil is getting scary and out door boilers are illegal in my area but out side pizza ovens are not. 

    ==============================================================

    If your worried about oil prices and forest eaters/outdoor wood boilers are not legal in your area you can always use a small coal stoker boiler to heat your home without a buffer tank and a coal fired pizza oven.
    The smaller table top propane fired pizza ovens will cost you less money and create less work.

    Wood fired gasification boilers require very dry firewood and will build up creosote quickly if it is not dried down to 15% or so.

    Wood pellet stoker boilers and wood pellet stoker stove as a rule use 2 tons of wood pellets for every ton of anthracite coal burned.

  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 18,222
    leonz said:

    Stormjib said:

    Thinking about a block fire brick oven /pizza lined with some recycled cast iron radiators , maybe built into the walls in some manor piped into a 500/1000 buffer tank heating a home ? Crazy thought but oil is getting scary and out door boilers are illegal in my area but out side pizza ovens are not. 

    ==============================================================

    If your worried about oil prices and forest eaters/outdoor wood boilers are not legal in your area you can always use a small coal stoker boiler to heat your home without a buffer tank and a coal fired pizza oven.
    The smaller table top propane fired pizza ovens will cost you less money and create less work.

    Wood fired gasification boilers require very dry firewood and will build up creosote quickly if it is not dried down to 15% or so.

    Wood pellet stoker boilers and wood pellet stoker stove as a rule use 2 tons of wood pellets for every ton of anthracite coal burned.

    On larger boilers it looks like chips are more and more common. A few less steps to process compared to pellets.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • leonz
    leonz Member Posts: 682
    edited June 2022
    Hello Bob,
    We have been using wood chips for biofuels for a number of years now here in the east.
    The salt brining and evaporation plant on the west shore of Seneca lake has wood chips delivered by rail car and they have been using wood chips to fuel its boiler for over a decade now using a concrete stave silo to store them.
    Fort Drum has used wood chips for almost 2 decades+- for its cogeneration steam plant and is facing the EPA and thier new pollution regulations and may have to stop burning wood chips which for them is very bad idea as they would have to return to using Eastern Bituminous coal as a boiler fuel.
    Leon
  • psb75
    psb75 Member Posts: 637
    Out east we have the option of acquiring dry wood chips as well. The burners, storage and handling equipment must be designed for them. Most large chip burners are designed for high moisture chips.
  • jumper
    jumper Member Posts: 1,911
    Why are outdoor boilers illegal? Can I install one in a utility shed?
  • leonz
    leonz Member Posts: 682
    It depends on the municipality, but as rule most all of them cannot comply with the NOX and particulate emissions standards.
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 18,222
    jumper said:

    Why are outdoor boilers illegal? Can I install one in a utility shed?

    The gasification versions seem to be meeting the standard still. They are more $$, and require dry wood to burn properly. Two things that the typical OWF buyer doesn't care for. Unfortunately some OWF owners liked to burn garbage, old tires, motor oil etc which gave the industry a bad rap.

    But even on a good day, good burn, 45% efficiency adds up to many many cords of wood needed for a winter. That took many by surprise, so they would burn whatever they could cram in the door.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    GGross
  • psb75
    psb75 Member Posts: 637
    What leonz said. They are banned in Vermont. Existing ones are "grandfathered." Too many of them 'smoke out' the neighbors with their short smokestacks. And they quite literally "gobble up" the forest. They use a disturbing amount of fuel. They are often run 'low and slow' i.e. smoldering during the fall and spring. Their open hydronic system is notorious for rusting out unless preventive water treatment is done. Lots of glycol has to be used if the installation requires it. Often bad installs are done with undersized piping and pumping.
  • GroundUp
    GroundUp Member Posts: 1,495
    psb75 said:

    What leonz said. They are banned in Vermont. Existing ones are "grandfathered." Too many of them 'smoke out' the neighbors with their short smokestacks. And they quite literally "gobble up" the forest. They use a disturbing amount of fuel. They are often run 'low and slow' i.e. smoldering during the fall and spring. Their open hydronic system is notorious for rusting out unless preventive water treatment is done. Lots of glycol has to be used if the installation requires it. Often bad installs are done with undersized piping and pumping.

    While I agree with your point on the poor installs, the rest of what you said is largely false. VT absolutely has not outlawed OWB, no state has. Federal law says that only certain EPA certified units can be sold and installed, but the state of VT does not have any additional restrictions. None of these EPA certified units make any noticeable smoke, and they'e all pushing 80% efficiency. Anything of quality is made with 409 stainess and will never rust, but water treatment should be used just like we do with pressurized systems and most manufacturers offer free annual water testing to keep water quality in spec. I have not added any treatment to mine since 2016 and the chemistry is still perfect.