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Leaking Viessman Vitocell 300 (with pics)

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  • meerkat
    meerkat Member Posts: 35
    edited June 2022
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    Further update: Got an email today from Viessman's warranty department, in response to the email I had sent them on May 31st, asking simply "has this issue been resolved?"
    So I responded by telling them No it has not, and then telling what I learned yesterday, i.e., that the contractor punted it to the supply house in March, who finally said last Friday that they were going to "start the warranty paperwork" yesterday, June 27th. Asked Viessmann to check their system to see if anything has come to them from the who-knows-what-name supply house yet. Let's see if/what/how Viessmann responds.

    They did include a link to a page that starts the warranty process, if needed, but it makes sense to first see if that actually HAS been finally initiated by the supply house. I did ask, in my response, whether I as the owner can do that if the supply house or contractor does not.
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,660
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    Is it still wet?
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,157
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    Are you absolutely sure you have a leaker?
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    mattmia2
  • Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
    Alan (California Radiant) Forbes Member Posts: 4,004
    edited June 2022
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    Did replacing the x-tank fix the problem? Are you trying to torture us? :persevere::wink:
    8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour

    Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab
    mattmia2
  • meerkat
    meerkat Member Posts: 35
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    @mattmia2 , @hot_rod and @Alan(CaliforniaRadiant)Forbes : The only thing the tech did last week was to replace the x-tank (and do the necessary piping change to put the new one on the cold water line instead of where the old one was.) He didn't touch the Viessmann at all. Didn't dry the top out, didn't do anything other than what was needed to remove the old x-tank and install the new one.
    The only way to tell whether the x-tank was actually the problem would have been if he had removed the existing water from the top of the Viessmann last week. He didn't do that, probably for the same reason that I won't do it - which is that if there is or will be a warranty claim, Viessmann MIGHT want to see pics of how much water has accumulated since the March photos were taken.
    It's even possible that his boss may have told him "just replace the x-tank, don't touch the water tank." Who knows.
    @hot_rod , the statement that "the tank isn't supposed to leak" came from the tech. The fact that his boss subsequently told him to take photos so that a warranty claim could be started, after whatever was done in early March didn't work, indicates that they think the tank is leaking. So the only person who can answer your question ("Are you absolutely sure you have a leaker?") is either the tech or his boss. I'm not the heating/plumbing pro in this scenario. ;)
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,660
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    If i were viessman I would want to see you remove the water and wait to see if it comes back.
    GGross
  • meerkat
    meerkat Member Posts: 35
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    I agree, but considering that Viessmann is in the driver's seat re: approving or denying any warranty claims, I'm not going to do anything without their say-so. I'm sure the contractor feels the same way at this stage of the game.
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,157
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    So basically your plumber needs to or has proven the tank does in fact have a leak. When the rep or Viessmann get the tank they will want to see the leak to approve a warranty.

    Typically you buy the replacement tank, replace the old one and send it in or the factory rep examines it. Usually the jacket and insulation comes off and it is pressure tested to locate the leak.

    I'd be surprised if you get a claim, check, or new tank until all the hoops are jumped through?

    Seems like a long complicated process for you to get a resolve, bummer.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • GGross
    GGross Member Posts: 1,050
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    @meerkat

    Has the plumber actually called Viessmann while he was there? As I said before, Viessmann has been able to approve, in some cases, complete unit changeouts over the phone. They want to make sure that all the proper trouble shooting steps have been taken though. I can guarantee that if you take photos of the water now and clean it up that Viessmann will not care, they do not expect you to keep a mess on your hands while they file paperwork. This is your plumber and his wholesaler who are dragging feet. I deal with the warranty and tech department at Viessmann every single day, is there a case number for this? I can contact the regional sales manager and see if anything has been filed from the wholesaler
  • Paul Pollets
    Paul Pollets Member Posts: 3,656
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    The tank will ultimately have to be pressure tested and witnessed by a Viessmann rep. Credits are not given unless the leak is verified. It sometimes helps to get the local rep involved from the beginning of the claim.
  • meerkat
    meerkat Member Posts: 35
    edited June 2022
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    @GGross , it appears that the plumber/contractor/tech did not call or text Viessmann when he was here in March, because if he had, a case number would have been generated - and according to Viessmann's tech rep last week, none was.
    However, I have some news as of this morning. A Viessmann warranty rep responded to yesterday's email, giving me a claim number that was assigned to this unit. (it sounds as if a "case number" and "claim number" are two different things, i.e. for service/repair versus warranty) He also explained that he is currently "very backlogged but will be handling [it] at [his] earliest convenience". The email was not signed with a specific name but at least I now have a channel of communication based on a claim number rather than having to be at the mercy of the plumber/contractor or his supply house for any info.
    The warranty rep said that the claim was "recently downloaded from the website", which I assume means an internal system/site available to Viessmann's warranty and/or tech service reps only. Not sure what the definition of "recently" is in this instance, but am just glad that to at last confirm that there is something in the works over there, lol
  • GGross
    GGross Member Posts: 1,050
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    @meerkat

    Yes generally the "case number" is assigned when a service tech calls in for tech support, the claim number is the internal warranty claim ID. My concern is that the claim will be "denied" as there has not been a tech support case to verify the leak. If that happens feel free to reach out to me, I can get ahold of my contacts and get them to reach out to you, you need to be talking to a regional sales manager at that point. The sales team has some autonomy to make decisions that make sense, the people you would email with in warranty are almost always only going to send a copy-pasted response, they don't want to say the wrong thing in an email.
  • Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
    Alan (California Radiant) Forbes Member Posts: 4,004
    edited June 2022
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    The only way to tell whether the x-tank was actually the problem would have been if he had removed the existing water from the top of the Viessmann last week. He didn't do that, probably for the same reason that I won't do it - which is that if there is or will be a warranty claim, Viessmann MIGHT want to see pics of how much water has accumulated since the March photos were taken.
    Curiosity would drive me to find the source of the water, whether it be the leaking x-tank or in fact, the indirect. Why would I want to pay a lot of money in labor to replace a tank that potentially is not leaking? I would remove the lid of the indirect, take lots of pictures before I cleaned it up and then wait and see if the water returns. Like I said before, it's pretty unusual that a Viessmann indirect leaks. I've installed dozens and never had a leaker. Has anyone had one?

    Edit: I thought about this some more and if that indirect is truly leaking, it wouldn't just fill the cavity under the lid. It would overflow onto the floor and you would have a continuous stream of water, either going to your floor drain or flooding the floor. You previously wrote,
    ....we first noticed the problem in late February when we found 2 lines of rusty water running down the tank's exterior from top to bottom....
    Is this still happening?
    8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour

    Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab
    GGrossmattmia2