I'm all for LED's but really?

ChrisJ

mattmia2 said:

Cosmetics.  The socket both costs money and may even need to be required to work with an incandescent because someone may install one.  That's where those funky twist pin CFLs came from, they could make the entire fixture much cheaper because you couldn't use an incandescent.

Right now I'd much rather have a bulge in this fart fan and a replaceable lamp than the low profile flat look its got.

I think those had a ballast in the fixture so it wasn't at all a standard 120v socket. I can see the 40w or so of heat being undesirable in the fridge depending on how long people stand wit the door open. the problem isn't the proprietary led, the problem is the race to the bottom in price. the refrigeration system probably will leak within a decade too.

I did a little digging tonight and have mixed feelings.

They "potted" the PCB in a rubber like material that will come out but it's a pain and I'm not sure how successful soldering would be.

But I chipped a little out of a corner just to get a feel for it and then decided to plug the light in and start moving and pushing on components and I can't get it to dim anymore.  





What I did find funny is the Panasonic marked LED uses some no name aluminum electrolytic caps, not Panasonic ones.

Did Panasonic stop making components or are theirs too expensive for a fart fan light?

mattmia2

too expensive/they don't make the driver. i have bought panasonic caps within the past year

look at the LEDs themselves if you can, they get really hot and that is hard on the solder

it looks like there are 2 supplies to the panel, one for the nightlight and one for the main light so if only part is going out the defect has to be on the led panel itself.

ChrisJ

mattmia2 said:

too expensive/they don't make the driver. i have bought panasonic caps within the past year look at the LEDs themselves if you can, they get really hot and that is hard on the solder it looks like there are 2 supplies to the panel, one for the nightlight and one for the main light so if only part is going out the defect has to be on the led panel itself.

It's not going out.
The night light is only in one spot vs the normal light that is the entire panel.   The normal light gets dim but the whole panel stays lit.

JUGHNE

4 bath house, installed the "average" Broan 678 fan lights in late 90's
All still running with cleaning and a touch of oil on motor bearings every year or so.

Edison base light bulbs. 100 Watt max, more would discolor the lense.
Will accept any LED bulbs which are now in use in them.

No night light but saved enough over the years to buy a Bidet WC seat for the wife.
It has a built in night light on the seat for safe landings.
(Point maker BTY for Mother's Day) .

Not quiet.....but white noise at the WC's is a plus IMO.

These were the standard for all the new houses I did for 40 years.

That picture you posted....all that for a simple...not cheap...... light bulb?

ChrisJ

JUGHNE said:

4 bath house, installed the "average" Broan 678 fan lights in late 90's
All still running with cleaning and a touch of oil on motor bearings every year or so.

Edison base light bulbs. 100 Watt max, more would discolor the lense.
Will accept any LED bulbs which are now in use in them.

No night light but saved enough over the years to buy a Bidet WC seat for the wife.
It has a built in night light on the seat for safe landings.
(Point maker BTY for Mother's Day) .

Not quiet.....but white noise at the WC's is a plus IMO.

These were the standard for all the new houses I did for 40 years.

That picture you posted....all that for a simple...not cheap...... light bulb?

I guess,
But I try not to look at it that way.

For example, compare an HEI setup to a breaker points ignition system.
I'm sure plenty said "All of that for a simple not cheap ignition system?" in the 1970s.

But in terms of both reliability and performance HEI was far superior.

Just because something is more complicated doesn't mean it's less reliable in my experience.


This sure went off topic....

JUGHNE

I agree the HEI system was an improvement.

But that component of the car could be repaired or completely replaced without approaching the full price of the car.

ChrisJ

JUGHNE said:

I agree the HEI system was an improvement.

But that component of the car could be repaired or completely replaced without approaching the full price of the car.

Yes, that's my complaint here.
That's the part that's beyond my understanding.

Like I said, $10-20, fine, it's steep but whatever I need to see in the bathroom
But $144 is too much.

mattmia2

Yeah, replacement parts are weird that way. I have an echo hedge trimmer attachment where 2 gears and a couple bearings cost around $100 through the parts distribution. The same parts from a makita were around $20. It was a hard call between spending 100 on the parts or replacing the whole system with makita.

mattmia2

What does the cover without the light and a can light with a night light cost? Kind of why I'm not for all in one of anything.

ChrisJ

mattmia2 said:

What does the cover without the light and a can light with a night light cost? Kind of why I'm not for all in one of anything.

Oh I don't know...
It looks like most can-less LED lights are $15-20 each. I could do two of them just because...
And I could 3D print a blank fill in for the current grill that would look pretty good when done.

Not really the solution I had planned though when I bought a product I assumed was reasonable at the time.

ChrisJ

Just wanted to update the thread.
The LED was replaced under warranty.

Though it took 2 weeks.

mattmia2

2 weeks is nothing...

ChrisJ

mattmia2 said:

2 weeks is nothing...

If you put it into perspective that for the past 42 years of my life it never took more than a few minutes to fix a bathroom light 2 weeks is excessive.


But they replaced what is hopefully a fluke and the next one will go much longer.

TAG

I'm picky about light and had a bit of a disaster in a previous project with small opening LED recessed -- they were very expensive and when some of the modules failed I had a hard time with the manufacturer .. when they were finally replaced the color temp was different VS those still in the house. What a battle -- these were very expensive lights and I was shocked at the problems I had. I had to go to crazy lengths to get it resolved. I have had some of the same issues with outside lighting.

IMO -- Stick to a LED bulb that can be replaced.

Solid_Fuel_Man

I've put in many LED "recessed look" lights since they have been available the past 10 or so years. The edge lit ultra thin ones which are thinner than sheetrock. The driver module which attaches with a 6" pigtail and a chiniesum connector is what seems to fail. Standard practice is to drill the ceiling, wire up the driver, connect the light, and snap it in the ceiling. That driver, often times ends up buried in insulation in an attic and well we know how that works out. 

What I consider best practice, and I am able to implement on some installs is to cut the chiniesum connector off run low voltage18/2 cable from the light and mount the drivers in a nice cool accessible location like a basement. Adds some wireing complexity but overall is much easier to just swap out the driver. Which my local electrical supplier always has. Or just get the customer to buy a couple of spare lights in the first place. 

TAG

Solid_Fuel_Man said:

I've put in many LED "recessed look" lights since they have been available the past 10 or so years. The edge lit ultra thin ones which are thinner than sheetrock. The driver module which attaches with a 6" pigtail and a chiniesum connector is what seems to fail. Standard practice is to drill the ceiling, wire up the driver, connect the light, and snap it in the ceiling. That driver, often times ends up buried in insulation in an attic and well we know how that works out. 

What I consider best practice, and I am able to implement on some installs is to cut the chiniesum connector off run low voltage18/2 cable from the light and mount the drivers in a nice cool accessible location like a basement. Adds some wireing complexity but overall is much easier to just swap out the driver. Which my local electrical supplier always has. Or just get the customer to buy a couple of spare lights in the first place. 

To my eye those wafer fixtures are utility lights ... same with most of the LED retrofit lights from the big box stores. Why take a nice recessed fixture and turn it into nothing more than a surface light. Both are the go to fixture for every cheap flip.

Solid_Fuel_Man

I'm talking new install. 

The brand I use is NDR. I've put in a few hundred for customers, and everyone loves them. I cannot stand can lights in general. And the flat panel LED look better to me personally. But that is obviously a subjective opinion. 

ChrisJ

Solid_Fuel_Man said:

I'm talking new install. 

The brand I use is NDR. I've put in a few hundred for customers, and everyone loves them. I cannot stand can lights in general. And the flat panel LED look better to me personally. But that is obviously a subjective opinion. 

I like how those look, but I have the same concerns as with the fart fan.
So you install a ton of these in your house, and one or two fail. Now what?

mattmia2

My bigger concern is with the optics. I have seen a lot of inexpensive LED products that don't diffuse the light properly and cause a lot of glare and make it difficult to see.

TAG

Solid_Fuel_Man said:

I'm talking new install. 

The brand I use is NDR. I've put in a few hundred for customers, and everyone loves them. I cannot stand can lights in general. And the flat panel LED look better to me personally. But that is obviously a subjective opinion. 

my lighting architect has nightmares about those .... layered light that includes good recessed is IMO what it's all about. The wafers just light up the ceiling ...

Robert O'Brien

ChrisJ said:

In 2012 I installed a Panasonic bath fan with a CFL light, actually I'm not sure if that counts as a CFL, it's a special 4 pin setup, but I've had no complaints with it. The fan is super quiet, works great, the light is bright etc. HOWEVER, In 2019 I installed a newer Panasonic fan in our main bathroom and it has an LED light and night light. The main light failed yesterday so I looked into replacing it. $140......... for a fan I paid $130 for. The LED has a 5 year warranty but I'm currently trying to work that out with Panasonic and my hopes aren't very high because I did my own work. I'm not sure what I'm goin to do if they won't cover it under warranty, or, for that matter if it fails again in a few years. Which I'm sure it will. It just seems silly....... Something isn't great with this setup. A $140 LED isn't saving me enough money and it's performance isn't good enough to justify it's existence in this form. Has anyone else run into this ridiculousness?

Climate denier!  

ChrisJ

Robert O'Brien said:

ChrisJ said:

In 2012 I installed a Panasonic bath fan with a CFL light, actually I'm not sure if that counts as a CFL, it's a special 4 pin setup, but I've had no complaints with it. The fan is super quiet, works great, the light is bright etc.

HOWEVER, In 2019 I installed a newer Panasonic fan in our main bathroom and it has an LED light and night light. The main light failed yesterday so I looked into replacing it.

$140......... for a fan I paid $130 for.
The LED has a 5 year warranty but I'm currently trying to work that out with Panasonic and my hopes aren't very high because I did my own work.

I'm not sure what I'm goin to do if they won't cover it under warranty, or, for that matter if it fails again in a few years. Which I'm sure it will. It just seems silly.......

Something isn't great with this setup. A $140 LED isn't saving me enough money and it's performance isn't good enough to justify it's existence in this form.


Has anyone else run into this ridiculousness?

Climate denier!  

Are you feeling ok @Robert O'Brien ?