Trying to date my old boiler

PkTaylor

It's was made by the National Radiator Company. Name plate calls it the "National Internal Tube Gas Boiler." US Patent no 1960310. size number 6-30. serial number B-4287. AGA Rating: Sq ft steam 900, sq ft water 1440. I found patent number 1960310A from 1934, but I'm seeing history that says the National Radiator Company was folded into the National Radiator Corporation in 1930. Either way, I'm amazed it's still working. It needs a new pump and the repair companies are pushing a new boiler but I'm hesitant to retire something that has lasted probably 80+ years, especially when new models have life expectancies between 15 and 20 years. Am I crazy to want to keep this old boiler?

Steamhead

Post some pics. If this is what I think it is, it's full of asbestos. And if it still has its original gas train, it probably no longer meets Code.

EdTheHeaterMan

Another dating request on HH? This is turning into a regular Tinder alternative.

Next thing you know... we are going to start seeing "Boiler Porn"

GGross

EdTheHeaterMan said:

Another dating request on HH? This is turning into a regular Tinder alternative.

Next thing you know... we are going to start seeing "Boiler Porn"

Be careful what you type into Google Ed

pecmsg

EdTheHeaterMan said:

Another dating request on HH? This is turning into a regular Tinder alternative. Next thing you know... we are going to start seeing "Boiler Porn"

I never got a picture of the Thatcher in this house!

PkTaylor

PkTaylor

ScottSecor

@PkTaylor I may be way off,  but that doesn't look that old to me.  Without any more photos or the books in my office I would guess 1950's or 1960's.  I'm sure others (like Steamhead) could  probably tell you the day and the week it was manufactured (lol).

PkTaylor

that's all I have on hand, I can get a couple more later. Thanks for the potential asbestos warning. If we do replace it, I will make sure the technicians are able to dispose of any hazardous materials safely.

PkTaylor

It's a little over five feet high, six feet long, a big black box. There is a large water canister that hangs above it, and a pump on one end.

Big Ed_4

How old is the house ?

mattmia2

If the circulator is original it is probably post wwii. the tridicator being marked in altitude as well as psig definitely is older, it was definitely at a time when it might have used with an open expansion tank, probably as a replacement boiler.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Probably 40s ish

PkTaylor

The house is from the 1870s.

bburd

What style are your radiators or convectors? Can you post a photo?

wlgann

National Radiator merged with US Radiator in 1954. The patent mentioned in the plaque was filed in 1931. The lettering on the plaque and gauge scream 1950s to me, so I'd put it toward the later end of the 1931-1954 range, maybe as early as 1948 but probably no earlier due to metal appropriation during World War II.

PkTaylor

Radiator pics

bburd

Those radiators and valves are older than that boiler by many decades. The boiler is not original to the heating system, it’s at least the second one in the house.

Big Ed_4

I would agree , Converted from coil to gas with a boiler replacement . Casting was pre World War 2 or just after . There would be date codes in the casting somewhere if you really need to know ..

Steamhead

Except for the last one, those radiators are American Rococos. The last one is probably an Aetna Flue Window Radiator, also made by American Radiator.

These classic beauties went out of production in 1920 or so.

PkTaylor

Thank you to everyone who has weighed in on this. Big Ed, you are right it was coal power prior to the boiler. I don't really need the date, just trying to decide if it's worth replacing the old boiler or if that thing will keep chugging along for another decade or two. I'm very grateful for the asbestos info. Don't want to give any lung cancer!

reggi

@PkTaylor best guess after reviewing some other of the companies that followed

Serial number B 4287 ... the first two numbers following the letter (s) of the serial number indicates the year of production.. the one's that follow could be Month Day etc. But I'd pretty much narrow it down to 1942 by it's serial number.
Now when it was actually produced may be a story for Historians with the war effort as already mentioned 

bburd

A combustion efficiency test with proper instruments might help with your decision. Boilers from that period were extremely well-made, as you have discovered. However, parts for the original burners are almost certainly no longer available. Those should be looked at very carefully.

mattmia2

Steamhead said:

Post some pics. If this is what I think it is, it's full of asbestos. And if it still has its original gas train, it probably no longer meets Code.

Pictures of the gas control train would be a great idea. If it is just not total shutoff that probably isn't so bad especially if it is natural gas. If it is some gas pressure controlled modulating setup or something like that then it probably isn't particularly safe.

JUGHNE

Do we ever get to see the entire boiler??

Piping and gas valve??

PkTaylor

PkTaylor

We had some leaks from the pump,  thus the bucket

reggi

Did you recently aquire this or do you have history with this system ? Just curious how it heated and ran up to this point..Or if it's pretty much new to you and your starting from a unknown... 
To me it's interesting that it may of been in production/produced in 1942 if the serial number interpretation is correct 

Steamhead

Late 1940s- mid 1950s. These were common in Baltimore houses from that era.

Jersey2

Those radiators are something. Works of art.

PkTaylor

We've had the house since 2013 and never had a problem with it. Just the pump went out now and the technicians were suggesting that we might save a bunch with a more efficient system, but I'm not totally convinced. This thing has lasted for a long time and might continue for a good while yet. And the life expectancy of the new system was 10-15 years.... I think the pitot light went out once in the time we've been running it.

mattmia2

Get someone that knows what they are doing, not the people who are trying to sell you a new boiler, to clean and adjust it and test the safeties. A new boiler could be a bit more efficient but not enough to pay for replacing it. Replacing it won't be cost effective until you see water leaking out of it.

A picture of the gas controls with the front cover off would be good too to make sure it isn't anything crazy.

reggi

Steamhead said:

Late 1940s- mid 1950s. These were common in Baltimore houses from that era.

Hmmm Still when you see it now the color  even looks like Olive Drab 3 ... There is a stamp over on the Size # ... 
Maybe it was produced for the military and when they didn't need it (them) they were sold and ended up installed..????  
That would be a super cool history though maybe a stretch.... but then again...the color looks like Military Color Olive Drab 3... probably a coincidence 🕵️‍♂️

mattmia2

Oh, and get those plastic shopping bags away from the vent. that pulley on the ceiling had a chain over it that was part of the controls for the coal boiler.

reggi

mattmia2 said:

Oh, and get those plastic shopping bags away from the vent. that pulley on the ceiling had a chain over it that was part of the controls for the coal boiler.

He dates the house to the 1870''s
 Butz invented the Damper Regulator 1880's but things get moving until Sweats ? bought it and took it to the people around the turn of the century..I think... People didn't have electricity and well that was start of it all.. Historic House 

mattmia2

It was probably heated by stoves or fireplaces in the 1870's, the first boiler was probably later.

PkTaylor

Yes, it was heated by fireplaces and stoves

PkTaylor

mattmia2 said:

Get someone that knows what they are doing, not the people who are trying to sell you a new boiler, to clean and adjust it and test the safeties. A new boiler could be a bit more efficient but not enough to pay for replacing it. Replacing it won't be cost effective until you see water leaking out of it.

A picture of the gas controls with the front cover off would be good too to make sure it isn't anything crazy.

I'm not sure where the gas controls/front cover are, but I will try it to figure it out. The bad news... last time when I went down to take pictures, I stepped on a live rat (who thankfully didn't bite me) and then my dog saved me by killing it.

mattmia2

That big panel on the front with the chrome handle at the top. you should turn the handle one way or the other and that panel probably tips out at the top then the bottom lifts out. If you see something that looks like gray corrugated cardboard, that is asbestos paper, try not to disturb it.

PkTaylor

PkTaylor

I'm assuming that is asbestos on the door