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Oil Fired Pool Heater in Pool Shed

Romel
Romel Member Posts: 3
Greetings from NJ USA!

I live in a rural part of NJ where we do not have access to natural gas. I finally decided to scrap my old oil fired pool heater and for a couple of reasons decided to go with a new Thermo-dynamics oil fired pool heater OTF 1600(350k btu). The old heater was not vented and simply worked in the shed with upper and lower doors on each side of the shed venting and letting in fresh air. Needless to say this worked but was not ideal.
 I am going to install the new heater with a flue to make it a little safer and closer to code. My questions are:

1. Do you guys think I still need to keep those side doors open or can I just add some kind of vent or louvers?
2. Does this setup need a barometric damper?

I added a picture of the flue setup I was considering minus the T barometric damper I was also considering.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated!

Comments

  • Jon_blaney
    Jon_blaney Member Posts: 273
    You will need combustion air. The install directions will tell you what is required for combustion air and venting. The manual is probably available on line so you can read before you buy.
  • Romel
    Romel Member Posts: 3
    edited April 18
    Hi Jon Blaney.
    The installation instructions simply state that it needs a standard 8 inch flue if installed in a pool shed. It seems to me that it has plenty of combustion air with the side doors open (you can see the burner through the lower side door). But do you think I can just install a large louver vent in place of the door? That way I could keep the shed closed.

    And because it’s open to outside air does it still need a damper?

  • bburd
    bburd Member Posts: 332
    Another issue: the flue pipe needs to rise well above that window on the second story, and several feet above the roof as well, per code and the manufacturer’s instructions. You don’t want oil fumes getting into the house.

    Bburd
  • Romel
    Romel Member Posts: 3
    True, but that window is never open. There is a chimney right next to the stove (used for an oil furnace.) Can they share the chimney?
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 3,203
    edited April 18
    You know that the "Code" is written based on insurance claims. Insurance companies pay claims and they get reviewed by underwriters. If some one is injured, property is damaged, or someone dies, the insurance company pays a claim. If there is a trend of payouts for some reason, there are people who try to figure out what went wrong, and what can be done to prevent it from happening again.

    So the idea of leaving a door open or having a chimney higher than a window that never opens is not for anyone to decide that it does not apply to them. You need to remember that you will not always be there to make sure that the door is never closed, or the window is never open. Some day when you are visiting a friend, or in the hospital for a broken hip, your friendly neighbor will doo you a favor and open that window or close that door and the reason for the code rule will become quite apparent when you experience property damage, injury to a loved one or even a death.

    If the window never opens then remove the window. That way it won't be there to mistakenly be opened by persons other than you. The Code is written for us smart people to follow because there are lots of stupid out there.

    And the chimney hight has nothing to do with the window, it is for proper drafting.

    illustration from a previous post

    Mr.Ed
    Edward Young
    Retired HVAC Contractor from So. Jersey.
    Services first oil burner at age 16
    P/T trainer for EH-CC.org
    MikeAmann
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 12,019
    @Romel

    I guess you can install this any way you want....it's your house. If It was mine I would want it to meet code. What do you do in the worse case scenario is to have it cause a fire and have your insurance company deny the claim because it wasn't installed in accordance with the mfg. instructions or worse cause serious injury?

    Saying "the window is never open" doesn't count.

    To be right you have to follow the mfg. instructions and any local code.

    The chimney must run up higher than anything within 10' of the chimney and you need a permanent combustion air opening. Opening and closing a door doesn't count. Doors and windows can be open and shut by anyone.

    I would think I would consider maybe power venting it
    EdTheHeaterMan
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 4,596
    edited April 18
    You should run this by the pointy heads at Thermo Dynamics. Because it will have draft issues unless the chimney goes above the upper roof, as @bburd mentioned. At least 3 ft, within 10 if the peak. I don't know if T.D. specs that. The boiler was manufactured to be outside, without obstructions. Same with venting into the brick chimney. What's the maximum allowable length with elbows does T.D. allow? Can that chimney handle the BTU's?
    If the venting somehow works out and the boiler can stay in the shed, Beckett offers a fresh air kit that gets piped to outside. But you probably won't be able put the front boiler door on. That does require barometric relief. 
    Sorry to say, but I think you put the cart before the horse on this.
    EdTheHeaterMan
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 5,691
    Just because it says 'standard 8 inch flue' you still have to respect distance to combustibles, and NFPA code. So you just can’t poke it thru the plywood. You’ll need a double wall, and you’ll need to get it up past the second floor, 2.5' higher than anything within 10'.
    steve
    EdTheHeaterMan
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 2,899
    edited April 18
    Romel said:
    True, but that window is never open. There is a chimney right next to the stove (used for an oil furnace.) Can they share the chimney?
    It  can be opened so the chimney needs to go higher!
  • Jon_blaney
    Jon_blaney Member Posts: 273
    I would contact the manufacturer tech support with these questions. You may want to think twice about this brand if the instructions are so weak. I am also not sure that your burner location is really in what most people would consider a pool shed. I am thinking a free standing structure, not attached to a house.
  • ron
    ron Member Posts: 220
    Romel said:


    My questions are:

    1. Do you guys think I still need to keep those side doors open or can I just add some kind of vent or louvers?
    2. Does this setup need a barometric damper?

    I added a picture of the flue setup I was considering minus the T barometric damper I was also considering.

    Any insight would be greatly appreciated!

    commenting because I found this thread interesting... an outdoor oil fired pool heater... compared to my traditional oil fired boiler in the house.

    your original pic showing a long flue from a wood burning stove, does not apply here with regards to physics. Your oil burner has an electric powered fan to force air into a combustion chamber (to burn fuel oil). Burning wood in a stove, located well within the house using living space air and having a long flue is completely different with regards to draft.

    1. the oil burner obviously needs air for combustion... how much.. the vent louvers on that OTF model whatever should give you an indication (not to mention the last hole on the burner air passes through before going into the combustion chamber). what is air cfm needed r for 2.5gph (350k btu/hr) ? I don't know/remember at the moment how to do that math, but a simple 12" x 4" return vent grill on the door would be enough. Given that looks like a complete outdoor shed simply built off the exterior house wall, you might have enough air leakage already.

    https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-14-in-x-6-in-Steel-Return-Air-Grille-in-White-E17014X06/300539112

    2. coming from the viewpoint of forget code, thinking only of the reason and physics and purpose of a barometric damper... simply being outside air is irrelevant. if the flue [chimney] goes 50' up from the burner then you will have mega updraft and need a damper to reduce it. If your flue pipe goes just 5' up enough to clear just the shed roof then probably not. If you flue it up ~20' to clear the house roof then in order to get burner combustion to happen within an optimum draft window for optimum combustion you will need to damper [reduce] it. https://fueloilnews.com/2011/11/07/why-do-we-need-a-draft-regulator/. Example: can you run that OTF1600 exactly as pic'd with no flue and get adjust the burner air damper to get perfect combustion- yes.


    Your burner location is not within nor connected to living space given your pics, I see no way how the burner fan can possibly pull air from inside the house nor any backdraft will affect anything within the house so using any of that as argument in relation to code is irrelevant. I'd be most worried about smell and particulate build up. u said u had no flue before? so the previous heater just exhausted within that shed space with the doors open? would be interested in hearing more detail how you ran the previous burner and didn't have any soot issues. I suppose if u ran a lot of excess combustion air it'd be clean(er) and not soot up the beige paint and window, but at the cost of combustion efficiency.. which u might not care about at all when heating pool water.



  • KingEdward
    KingEdward Member Posts: 5
    If you need a 7" draft damper ill send you one free.  I have a few extras. Ed