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Open ended question regarding steam boilers w/electric power-futuristic(cheap) electricity

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  • fentonc
    fentonc Member Posts: 237
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    That's really interesting - I wonder how practical it would be to try to make a vacuum steam system based on an air-to-water heat pump.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,716
    edited March 2022
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    Steam can be created at much lower temperatures if you can control your pressure.

    Steam systems are literally phase change systems, just like heat pumps.
    So to me, assuming you don't limit it to traditional vented and often leaky systems there are many ways to make it work.


    You could build a heat pump that has each radiator as a head, similar to a minisplit. It probably wouldn't use water, but it could certainly heat efficiently.


    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    CanuckerdelcrossvLS123
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 23,345
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    The only reason one wouldn't want to use water as the refriegerant is... well, two reasons. One is that it has a higher than desirable freezing point. The other is that the absolute pressures for the evaporators are extremely low, and preventing air leaks into the system would be a serious practical problem; the last thing you want in a heat pump type system is non-condensable (read: air) gasses in there.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    Solid_Fuel_ManLS123
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,716
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    Jamie Hall said:

    The only reason one wouldn't want to use water as the refriegerant is... well, two reasons. One is that it has a higher than desirable freezing point. The other is that the absolute pressures for the evaporators are extremely low, and preventing air leaks into the system would be a serious practical problem; the last thing you want in a heat pump type system is non-condensable (read: air) gasses in there.


    Keep in mind some refrigeration systems have run at very low pressures.
    My 1933-34 fridges run at 28"HG on the low side and somehow even after all these years are still tight.

    Preventing air leaks isn't much of an issue with good brazed joints or correct flare connections and I don't feel is a serious problem. Such a system would be installed like any air conditioner and we have many out there that are more than capable.

    But like I said, I would expect such a system to use a refrigerant rather than water. And I think it would be awesome............

    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    delcrossvLS123
  • delcrossv
    delcrossv Member Posts: 742
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    I see a possible product here. 👍😀
    Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
    LS123
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,716
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    delcrossv said:

    I see a possible product here. 👍😀

    I have no idea why it's not a thing.....

    We know how to install split systems and minisplits.
    We know how to work on refer systems.

    We've all seen totally passive condensers on refrigerators over the years.

    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    delcrossv

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