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Kitchen Faucet/Sink Install

taylorgeo
taylorgeo Member Posts: 40
edited March 8 in THE MAIN WALL
I'm hiring a plumber to replace a kitchen faucet, sink, drain, and shut-off valves.

Is there any benefit purchasing the faucet and sink through the plumber? Or should I just pick them up at Home Depot?

Comments

  • If he purchases the parts, he's required to make sure everything works properly. If you purchase the materials, it's on you. If the faucet drips, if you didn't get a sink with the correct number of holes in it (faucet, air gap, soap dispenser, water filter, etc.) or anything else, it's on you.

    Of course, the plumber will mark up the materials and you will pay more than if you had bought them.
    8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour
    mattmia2
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 13,555
    I would never, ever buy parts or equipment and then hire someone to install them.

    No one is going to like that and it's not going to help you at all.

    Hire someone to do the job and let them buy what's required.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 6,655
    The product sold at home centers is frequently a little different than the product sold to professionals as well, maybe it has toolless mounting or connections but is less secure and more cumbersome for someone that knows what they are doing to install. Sinks may be thinner and shallower than what is in the manufacturer's catalog to meet a price point for the retailer.
    Alan (California Radiant) ForbesIntplm.MikeAmann
  • MikeL_2
    MikeL_2 Member Posts: 385
           I encourage my customers to buy directly from a traditional wholesaler at my discount. Usually, the product is of better quality with less chance for a callback, and I know I can count on the suppliers support if there's an issue.
           My upfront quoted install cost includes labor, parts supplied, overhead, tax, and profit......
  • taylorgeo
    taylorgeo Member Posts: 40
    edited March 9
    Great points made by all here. Thank you!

    Now can anyone recommend a faucet brand that is reliable and relatively easy to repair on my own?

    I currently have an old school Delta faucet with the seats and springs inside the cap assembly and have been replacing them every year for 4 years now.

    And if anyone has any thoughts on Pull-Down and Pull-Out faucets. They look pretty cool and I can lose the side sprayer.
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 6,655
    Kohler. Chicago faucet. Chicago faucet is made to be serviced and last forever but the style can be a bit lackluster because it is a commercial faucet. I love my pulldown faucet with my 3 bowl sink.
    Intplm.
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 19,954
    I use mostly Kohler. Chicago where it is a utility sink. A couple of top line Moens... but they are hard to repair if needed. Pulldown faucets on a kitchen sink are really wonderful. My tenants love them.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • taylorgeo
    taylorgeo Member Posts: 40
    Yeah, I'm really liking the simplicity of a pull-down. I would love to get a one hole sink and NOT use a deck plate. Will give more room for accessories. Just need to find an 8-inch spout reach.
  • I like Grohe. They have quite a few plastic parts, but they seem to hold up.
    8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour
    mattmia2unclejohn
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 6,655
    I have a grohe shower head that is about 20 years old that I love. I found their stuff a little hard to navigate when I bought a new shower head for my mom a couple years ago, it was hard to figure out what parts went with what and which parts you needed for a complete assembly, but the quality seemed good.
    unclejohn
  • Condoman
    Condoman Member Posts: 88
    When asked I tell folks to buy a brand that has easy to get parts. I like Moen, Kohler, Delta & American Standard.

    Too many times I have had faucets that do not have parts available.
  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 1,404
    I have been installing Kohler and Delta for many many years with little to no problems after the fact.
    Look into those two brands. They have served me and my customers well.

    @taylorgeo . I'm concerned that you have had to work on / repair your faucet every year for the past 4 years? How is your water quality?

    As to how to purchase. Ask your plumber what he thinks you should purchase. Better to do that than surprise him.
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 6,655
    Intplm. said:


    @taylorgeo . I'm concerned that you have had to work on / repair your faucet every year for the past 4 years? How is your water quality?

    It could be the ports the seats and springs go in to need to be cleaned with vinegar or similar or the ball or disc is worn and needs replacement.

  • taylorgeo
    taylorgeo Member Posts: 40

    @Intplm.

    Water quality is great here in NY. It's the old school Delta with seats, springs, and o-rings. They wear out so quickly.
  • taylorgeo
    taylorgeo Member Posts: 40
    Condoman said:

    When asked I tell folks to buy a brand that has easy to get parts. I like Moen, Kohler, Delta & American Standard.

    Too many times I have had faucets that do not have parts available.

    Great point. The one thing I did NOT like about Kohler is the Prop 65 warning on their faucets.
  • taylorgeo
    taylorgeo Member Posts: 40
    This American Standard looks like a good value. Not sure if I want the side sprayer on the deck plate or not.

    Any opinions?


  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 6,655
    The sprayer in the deck plate is for when you don't have a hole in the sink for it. I like the pull down a whole lot more than the separate sprayer, it is already pointing the right way and a lot less hose to deal with to get where you need it.

    I'd be surprised if you don't find the prop 65 warning on the american standard in the actual package when you get one.
  • Condoman
    Condoman Member Posts: 88
    I like the pull down sprayer over the pull up as the pull down has a nice flexible metal jacketed hose and the pull up is often a stiffer plastic one.
    Intplm.
  • MikeAmann
    MikeAmann Member Posts: 645
    Delta will send you the replacement parts - for FREE. All you have to do is call them. That is if you were the original purchaser.
  • taylorgeo
    taylorgeo Member Posts: 40

    If he purchases the parts, he's required to make sure everything works properly. If you purchase the materials, it's on you. If the faucet drips, if you didn't get a sink with the correct number of holes in it (faucet, air gap, soap dispenser, water filter, etc.) or anything else, it's on you.

    Of course, the plumber will mark up the materials and you will pay more than if you had bought them.

    ChrisJ said:

    I would never, ever buy parts or equipment and then hire someone to install them.

    No one is going to like that and it's not going to help you at all.

    Hire someone to do the job and let them buy what's required.

    I hear what you're saying, but it looks like the local plumbing supply that my plumber deals with has an extremely limited selection of faucets and sinks. UGH.
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 17,531
    taylorgeo said:

    Condoman said:

    When asked I tell folks to buy a brand that has easy to get parts. I like Moen, Kohler, Delta & American Standard.

    Too many times I have had faucets that do not have parts available.

    Great point. The one thing I did NOT like about Kohler is the Prop 65 warning on their faucets.
    If the product is sold in California it will probably have a Prop 65 warning, all the Masco products do Delta, Peerless, Brizo.
    Pfister is another good brand.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    mattmia2
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 13,555
    edited March 16
    hot_rod said:
    When asked I tell folks to buy a brand that has easy to get parts. I like Moen, Kohler, Delta & American Standard. Too many times I have had faucets that do not have parts available.
    Great point. The one thing I did NOT like about Kohler is the Prop 65 warning on their faucets.
    If the product is sold in California it will probably have a Prop 65 warning, all the Masco products do Delta, Peerless, Brizo. Pfister is another good brand.
    Has something changed because as far as I always heard Price Pfister was considered junk.   But the last time I heard the name was 20+ years ago

    I still say T&S Brass is the only way to go
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 6,655
    There is a price phister faucet in my parents' house from the 60's that is decent.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 13,555
    mattmia2 said:
    There is a price phister faucet in my parents' house from the 60's that is decent.
    Interesting.
    Hard to argue with that.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • jimna01
    jimna01 Member Posts: 21
    As a humble homeowner  a couple of observations.  Almost anything you buy is going to a have a prop 65 warning on it. Including my tungsten fishing weights ( no lead and completely inert) . As for price pfister, I bought one in an emergency and it was worth exactly what I paid for it.  Essentially worthless .  

    When I hire contractors I usually have the contract written up with allowances for appearance and decorative items (sinks, faucets, flooring etc) so I get to choose.  I will ask them if they have preferred vendors I will check those first . If I don’t find anything I like, then I go elsewhere.  I let my contractor do the actual purchase and arrange for delivery etc. everyone is happy 
  • taylorgeo
    taylorgeo Member Posts: 40
    Before I put in the new sink and faucet, the shut-offs need to be replaced because they don't work any longer.

    Do you think I should also get rid of some of the piping?




  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 6,655
    Is that steel or brass?

    If steel and i have access below i'd replace it in a way that i can tie on when the rest is replaced.

    If brass, just take off the valves and replace them with NPT to compression stops and use a copper supply line it the new faucet.
    Larry Weingarten
  • taylorgeo
    taylorgeo Member Posts: 40
    I think they're brass.

    Can I just connect the PEX supply lines supplied with the faucet directly to the new valves?
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 6,655
    If they are long enough. otherwise you can get copper supply lines with a 3/8 compression fitting already soldered on one end to extend them.
  • TAG
    TAG Member Posts: 726
    As far as brands are concerned -- over the years I have encountered them all. The old school delta and Moen faucets are very simple to repair. In fact they will send you most of the parts to fix them for free if you call them. The mistake people make is not inspecting the ball or cartridge face when replacing the seals .... if there is any wear on the surfaces ... replace the full cartridge. I just did a Delta from the 80's and the face of the cartridge was fine -- but you need to inspect.

    I normally use Grohe for my personal projects and I like the single control with pull out spray on the head. I know the Grohe lines -- so I know what I'm going to get. Ideally it's nice to see and try them out. Many of the less expensive ones are plastic and very light weight -- I like a bit of heft. No kitchen or bath supply around?

    Grohe has a great warranty .... most do today. I have a deep Kohler cast iron sink in my laundry room at the beach w/ a matching Kohler faucet. It is from the early 00's -- they sent me a new hose and head when I called them last year .. all free. Kohler makes nice stuff as well -- I just don't often like the designs.
    MikeL_2
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 17,531
    ChrisJ said:
    hot_rod said:
    When asked I tell folks to buy a brand that has easy to get parts. I like Moen, Kohler, Delta & American Standard. Too many times I have had faucets that do not have parts available.
    Great point. The one thing I did NOT like about Kohler is the Prop 65 warning on their faucets.
    If the product is sold in California it will probably have a Prop 65 warning, all the Masco products do Delta, Peerless, Brizo. Pfister is another good brand.
    Has something changed because as far as I always heard Price Pfister was considered junk.   But the last time I heard the name was 20+ years ago

    I still say T&S Brass is the only way to go
    Have you ever installed or serviced them?  
    Their 2 and 3 handle tub shower valves were all brass construction, worked well for decades. Not sure about the current offerings under the name change.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    Larry Weingarten
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 13,555
    edited March 18
    hot_rod said:


    ChrisJ said:


    hot_rod said:

    When asked I tell folks to buy a brand that has easy to get parts. I like Moen, Kohler, Delta & American Standard.

    Too many times I have had faucets that do not have parts available.

    Great point. The one thing I did NOT like about Kohler is the Prop 65 warning on their faucets.

    If the product is sold in California it will probably have a Prop 65 warning, all the Masco products do Delta, Peerless, Brizo.
    Pfister is another good brand.


    Has something changed because as far as I always heard Price Pfister was considered junk.   But the last time I heard the name was 20+ years ago

    I still say T&S Brass is the only way to go


    Have you ever installed or serviced them?  
    Their 2 and 3 handle tub shower valves were all brass construction, worked well for decades. Not sure about the current offerings under the name change.



    No,
    I've never used their stuff, only word of mouth and I know how that goes. Although to be fair, the only reason I started using Caleffi products was word of mouth.

    I suspect my shower valve might actually be from them, but I don't know.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 6,655
    They have changed hands several times since they built the lackluster but bulletproof faucet in my parents' basement bathroom.
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 17,531
    Wolverine Brass use to make all solid brass faucets. The catered to the plumbers. Be nice to think there is a quality made in the US faucet still available

    https://www.plumbmaster.com/wolverinebrass/
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    MikeL_2
  • MikeL_2
    MikeL_2 Member Posts: 385
           I keep a Wolverine Brass lav faucet & kitchen faucet on my service truck, each are single handle. They're not fancy but are mostly brass construction & are of way better quality than a lot of the home center offerings. They're the only brand I'm willing to be responsible for.
          Wolverine Brass also sells superior braided lav & toilet supply connectors; each with a brass top nut.....
         
           
  • I used to be old school; everything I installed was brass. But I got tired of problems with brass ballcocks and switched to Fluidmaster 400A's; all plastic. Not a snitch of metal unless you get the model with a brass shank.

    As far as faucets go, I'm still liking the all-brass Chicago kitchen faucets and Grohe for mostly-plastic kitchen and bath faucets.
    8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour