New Boiler, Vents gurgling water!

denick

Hello!

Replaced my old boiler right after Thanksgiving. The weather hasn't been that cold in Northwest Connecticut so the boiler hasn't been running that hard. Over the last week with the couple of cold nights when the furnace runs for a while I can hear condensate "gargling" in vents. Not actually spitting water out that I have seen.

The new furnace is a Weil-McLain SGO series. The boiler and burner came all set up ready to go. Sized by measuring EDR as explained in the Lost Art of.

We redid the near boiler piping and added a drop header. Checked all the mains and returns. No leaks or problems. Mains, returns and radiators all have the correct pitch. When taking the old out what ran out of the wet return was pretty clean. I've drained the wet return 4 times in this month and it still is running clean. Vents are all working.

I've done many skimmings. There are no droplets above the water level in the glass. The water only bounces slowly less than 1/2" when boiler is firing.

There are 3 mains.
2" that's 70' long. Installed a Big Mouth and a Gorton #2.
1 1/2" 30' long not yet vented.
1 1/2" 20' long not yet vented.

Observations but don't know if they are relevant.

Installed a programable thermostat. 70° daytime, set back to 65° nighttime. This is most obvious when running to make up the 5°.

This happens most of the time within the last 2 minutes of the burn.

I hear air moving out of radiator vents within a minute of boiler firing? Haven't been able to observe a cold start up.

On shutoff there can be an aggressive sucking of air back into vents.

The one thing that I'm unsure of is,
The plumber who I worked with looked at the burner spec's that said it was set up with a nozzle, 1.0/70° @140 psi. He said in his experience 1.0 wasn't enough. He changed to a 1.25/ 80°. I don't know if he changed the psi? He did run the combustion checks and they were good.

I'm just a dirt and rock guy, who since 1985 have been keeping an old Sears boiler going. Since the early 90's reading Dan Holohan's books. Then this website and watching videos as they came out. So I do owe a debt to all the contributors to "Strictly Steam".

ethicalpaul

Everything you wrote sounds pretty good, except maybe the lack of venting on the two smaller mains, which would be causing more air than desirable to have to come out of the radiator vents on those mains.

1. How loud is the gargling? Can you make a video of it?

2. Is it happening on several radiators or just one? And on which of the mains?

3. What is the pressure of your system during these returns from setback?

4. (speaking of setback, a valid suggestion is to not have one, or as much of one--"doctor it hurts when I do this" argument)

5. Why have you drained the wet return 4 times this month? What was the thinking there?

6. Can we see pictures of the boiler and the near piping?

HVACNUT

SGO-? Going from a 1.00 gph nozzle to a 1.25 gph nozzle is quite a jump. Is the boiler rated for it?

Steamhead

denick said:

(snip)
The one thing that I'm unsure of is,
The plumber who I worked with looked at the burner spec's that said it was set up with a nozzle, 1.0/70° @140 psi. He said in his experience 1.0 wasn't enough. He changed to a 1.25/ 80°. I don't know if he changed the psi? He did run the combustion checks and they were good. (snip)

That doesn't sound right. I once ran into a newly-installed Peerless steamer where the wrong burner had been furnished- it was for a 5-section and the boiler was a 4-section. The system knocked, banged and spit from the wet, high velocity steam the boiler was making. I told the oil company service manager who had hired me that his install crew was to blame. Why? Because they didn't check it! Our company did a main vent upgrade a short time later.

What SGO model do you have? What burner is on it?

denick

ethicalpaul

1. How loud is the gargling?
Not loud as the volume. But you can hear it in the next room.

Can you make a video of it?
I'll try.

2. Is it happening on several radiators or just one?
More than one. Not always the same.
And on which of the mains?
All. seems less on vented.

3. What is the pressure of your system during these returns from setback?
I haven't checked that yet

5. Why have you drained the wet return 4 times this month?
I should have said I drained off some at the base of the Hartford Loop to see if anything was
accumulating. The water has been very clean.

6. Can we see pictures of the boiler and the near piping?
I'll try.

denick

HVACNUT

SGO-?
SGO Series 4, 5 section

Going from a 1.00 gph nozzle to a 1.25 gph nozzle is quite a jump. Is the boiler rated for it?
The tag attached to the burner says,
Firing Rate 1.20, Delvan Nozzle 1.00 X 70W, Pump Pressure 140


Steamhead

What SGO model do you have?
Series 4, SGO-5

What burner is on it?
Beckett AF model.

Steamhead

denick said:

HVACNUT

SGO-?
SGO Series 4, 5 section

Going from a 1.00 gph nozzle to a 1.25 gph nozzle is quite a jump. Is the boiler rated for it?
The tag attached to the burner says,
Firing Rate 1.20, Delvan Nozzle 1.00 X 70W, Pump Pressure 140


Steamhead

What SGO model do you have?
Series 4, SGO-5

What burner is on it?
Beckett AF model.

There are two firing rates listed in the SGO Beckett burner manual, here:

https://www.weil-mclain.com/sites/default/files/field-file/Beckett AFG Burner Manual for WM GO Oil Boilers Series 3&4 1220.pdf

The standard rate is 1.45 GPH, using a 1.50x80B at 100 PSI, but given the iffy fuel quality we see these days I'd use a 1.25x80B at 140 PSI. The reduced rate (5R) uses a 1.00x70W at 140 PSI for a firing rate of 1.2 GPH. So if your guy went to a 1.25 at 140 PSI, he's still within spec.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Down firing it will calm things down. How does your EDR compare to the firing rate of the boiler? Why would anyone fire a boiler at a rate larger than the EDR rating Plus the pick up factor + the boiler efficiency?

Your trying to jamb 10 pound of stuff in a five pound pail. Just causes more issues

denick

Thank you all for your replies. Had the original nozzle replaced and things calmed down and quieted down.