Burnham SteamMax...Thoughts?

AdmiralYoda

When it is time to replace my 40 year old Weil McLain boiler I was thinking of going with another WM such as the EG 6 Series.

The Burnham MegaSteam has always been held in high regard as one of the best steam boilers around but of course it is offered in oil fired only. Sure I can have one converted to gas but that will void the warranty.

Now Burnham has come out with a SteamMax gas fired boiler. Anyone have any experience with this one yet? Is it a gas version of the MegaSteam or something completely different?

Thanks!

https://www.usboiler.net/product/steammax-gas-fired-boiler

Dan_NJ

I have no idea, although they list out a series of improvements that sound impressive. And the manual shows an optional drop header configuration - might be something for @ethicalpaul to pass along to his local inspector

DanHolohan

I like this design. They spent a lot of time listening to the people in the field and then developed this boiler with water-quality (mainly chlorides that can kill pin boilers), and other issues in mind. It's been years in the making. I hope they do well with it.

AdmiralYoda

@Dan_NJ
I was actually thinking of @ethicalpaul when I saw that as well. I have the same EDR as him and was going to copy his install, looks great!

@DanHolohan
This is good news. My municipal water quality is pretty good and my pH is around 8.0 or so. Despite the lack of maintenance by the previous owners and lots of makeup water due to leaking radiators (now fixed)... @New England SteamWorks says its in great shape.

JohnNY

I'm hopeful the Steam Max will help repair my company's relationship with our local rep, but that ship has probably already sailed, which is a shame. I've installed 2 Steam Max boilers so far and they seem great. Different design, they heat up quickly, seem slightly heavier than the Independence series, and customer support on the unit is top notch. I've always liked that about Burnham.
I'm happy to see this effort made by US Boiler after numerous reported problems with some earlier steam boiler models.

SlamDunk

My independence is 11 and im waiting for it to fail on schedule. Reading these posts, I was thinking, if I do replace it, of going with a peerless because of everyones high opinion of the brand. I might not replace it because it is Dec 29 and will be 76 today. I rarely run the boiler more than three weeks a year. Last year not at all. Looking forward to hearing more about the steam max.

Hap_Hazzard

It's nothing like the MegaSteam, which is a highly efficient wet-base, three-pass boiler with a power burner. The SteamMax is an atmospheric boiler. Think of it as a new & improved Independence with a 10-year waterside corrosion warranty but the same AFUE efficiency.

Has anyone actually seen any of these available for purchase anywhere?

cross_skier

Really like "No heat transfer pins above water line, no crown sheet fins; greater corrosion resistance in critical areas"

I think the Megasteam with Carlin EZ gas gun would be more durable but this one may be better than Peerless 63 series.

Happy to see US Boiler making design improvements.

AdmiralYoda

@cross_skier
I said I had a Weil McLain above but I had a brain fart as I was on their website looking at things. I have a Peerless, a generation or three removed from the current 63 series.

I was planning on going with the Peerless 63 series but would love the MegaSteam, I just don't want to go through the headache of a gas conversion.

At the moment it is between the Peerless 63 and the Burnham SteamMax but with so little time on the market for the SteamMax I'm still skeptical.

cross_skier

If you have any info on headaches involved in converting the Megasteam to Carlin EZ gas I would love to see it.

You can't go wrong with Peerless series 63:and they do come with 2 supply tappings even with the modest sizes.

AdmiralYoda

@cross_skier
No headaches due to the conversion itself and parts involved. More losing the warranty and potentially battling with local code enforcement and maybe the insurance company as the gas conversion isn't "approved" by the manufacturer.

I have no proof that it will be a headache, but judging on my interactions with the local building department I anticipate there will be.

Hap_Hazzard

It really remains to be seen if the SteamMax is better than a Peerless, especially since, as far as I know, no one here has actually seen one in the wild yet, and we have no idea how much they'll be charging for them. It does look like they put a lot of thought into it, but, when you have a 40 year old boiler that's still going strong, you don't have a compelling reason to change brands, especially to a company that has had corrosion problems with its most popular atmospheric boiler, and who also make the most efficient steam boiler on the market but won't allow you to use it unless you switch to oil. Their intransigence about that really makes me reluctant to want to deal with them at all. Their 10-year waterside corrosion warranty may be industry leading, but they're really only guaranteeing that their sections will last 25% as long as my Peerless already has.

cross_skier

@Hap_Hazzard.
I was really happy this morning to see that your 40 year old Peerless G561 has the same bones as my Peerless 61-05.  That means I should have more time, more data, and maybe better options.

AdmiralYoda

@cross_skier @Hap_Hazzard
I have the G461, also 40 years old. If it wasn't so grossly oversized and I didn't need by boiler re-piped I'd keep it. (I still might).

We are going to remodel our home in the next year and it would be a perfect time for a new Peerless 63-03L since the steam pros will be there anyway.

Mark N

@Hap_Hazzard, @JohnNY has installed 2 SteamMax boilers. So, they are available and have been seen in the wild.

Hap_Hazzard

Mark N said:

@Hap_Hazzard, @JohnNY has installed 2 SteamMax boilers. So, they are available and have been seen in the wild.

Thanks, Mark. I must have missed that.

AdmiralYoda

@Mark N What was your general impression? Any obvious differences over the Independence?

Mark N

@Hap_Hazzard, you're welcome. He has a picture of one of the installs at the beginning of this thread. Only time will tell if the modifications make for a more durable boiler.

Hap_Hazzard

Mark N said:

@Hap_Hazzard, you're welcome. He has a picture of one of the installs at the beginning of this thread. Only time will tell if the modifications make for a more durable boiler.

Yes, I was going to say, "we'll know in 40 years." I'll definitely be looking at those pictures. John and his guys do awesome work.

Steamhead

AdmiralYoda said:

@cross_skier
No headaches due to the conversion itself and parts involved. More losing the warranty and potentially battling with local code enforcement and maybe the insurance company as the gas conversion isn't "approved" by the manufacturer.

I have no proof that it will be a headache, but judging on my interactions with the local building department I anticipate there will be.

MegaSteams and MPOs run fine if the proper conversion burner (Carlin EZ-Gas or maybe Riello) is used and correctly installed. Burnham/US Boiler will give you a different answer every week or so when asked why they don't like us doing this, and so far none of the ones I've heard make any sense from a technical or safety standpoint.

Someone I have a lot of respect for, holds the opinion that they do this to ingratiate themselves to oil companies so they will install Burnham over other brands. I have no proof of this, but it's the only thing I've heard that makes any sense- even though this is chasing a declining market.

They must have spent a lot of money to bring the SteamMax out. Time will tell how it holds up, but it appears to be no more efficient than the Independence. A gas-fired MegaSteam would undoubtedly do better.

ethicalpaul

They must have spent a lot of money to bring the SteamMax out. Time will tell how it holds up, but it appears to be no more efficient than the Independence. A gas-fired MegaSteam would undoubtedly do better.

Offset by at least some by the electric blower fan of course!

Hap_Hazzard

ethicalpaul said:

Offset by at least some by the electric blower fan of course!

That cost is probably more than offset by the reduction in warmed air sent up the chimney by a typical atmospheric boiler.

JohnNY

They weren't going for added efficiency points with the Steam Max. They're trying to curb the relentless warranty claims they've been denying for Independence boilers rotting out after 8-10 years.

cross_skier

I noticed the block sits on a sheet metal base assembly.  This is different than Megasteam and Peerless 63 where the iron castings stand on the floor.

https://youtu.be/5YHx-8M9wY4

Steamhead

This is typical dry-base atmospheric boiler construction. Despite the refractory in the base, these boilers lose considerable heat from their bases. This is one reason they're not as efficient as wet-base boilers like the MegaSteam, where the cast-iron and the boiler water go all the way under the flame.

The Peerless 63 incorporates the support structure into the end sections, but is still a dry-base boiler.

Atmospheric burners also have very poor control over combustion air, often running with 35-50% excess air as opposed to 20% or so on a power gas burner. This excess air just blows more heat up the chimney.

It is true that atmospheric boilers have gotten more efficient over the last couple decades, but they still cannot match power-burner gas boilers.

SlamDunk

What about fit? Will it slide in place of an independence without major re-piping?

JohnNY

SlamDunk said:

What about fit? Will it slide in place of an independence without major re-piping?

Not so much. The end sections are tapped on the Independence. The Steam Max taps one section in from the end.

EBEBRATT-Ed

I agree with @Steamhead. There is absolutely no reason that Burnham can't put the Mega Steam out as a gas package. Clearly if they wanted to they could.

All I know is around here MA & CT they are known as Leakhams. Maybe it's in the water, I don't know but I wouldn't install any Burnhams. I have seen too many fail at a young age. It doesn't matter if they are steam or water residential or commercial.

And this business about no heat transfer above the water line I don't know about that because The hot water boilers fail as well.

I have looked at the Steam Max and if you look at where the water like is and the height where the pins (heat transfer) stops there looks to me that there are plenty of pins above the water line. The Steam Max to me I am not seeing any significant design differences. Looks like any other pin boiler to me.

cross_skier

If I lived in MA or CT I would fill a couple of five gallon containers with water from a low chloride municipality and use that to feed my boiler over the winter.  You could make the trip an annual vacation.

Mark N

@cross_skier, Rhomar has a product "Steam-Pro" which is a steam boiler fluid that is premixed and ready to use. I've never used it so don't know how effective it is.

The Steam Whisperer

Steamhead said:

This is typical dry-base atmospheric boiler construction. Despite the refractory in the base, these boilers lose considerable heat from their bases. This is one reason they're not as efficient as wet-base boilers like the MegaSteam, where the cast-iron and the boiler water go all the way under the flame.

The Peerless 63 incorporates the support structure into the end sections, but is still a dry-base boiler.

Atmospheric burners also have very poor control over combustion air, often running with 35-50% excess air as opposed to 20% or so on a power gas burner. This excess air just blows more heat up the chimney.

It is true that atmospheric boilers have gotten more efficient over the last couple decades, but they still cannot match power-burner gas boilers.

I've only seen one newer atmospheric not run at about 50% excess air, that was a Dunkirk D248 or 9. It appears they tightened up the combustion over the 247 in order to squeak out enough efficiency so it could pass the newer higher efficiency standards. I still tests as the least efficient large boiler out there.
Now the older atmospherics, with cast iron burners, I have found nearly always run at 30% excess air or less, often making them just as efficient or more efficient than new atmospherics. It seems they added a lot more pinning to the newer boilers, but reduced the combustion efficiency. I have one of the rather rare 1991 Dunkirk Plymouth hot water boilers heating my home with the newer heavily pinned heat exchanger, but the older cast iron burners. It tests 2 to 3 points higher in efficiency than newer atmospherics. It has both cooler exhaust gases and excess air down around 30%.
Hopefully in the next year or so, I will have converted to modified steam minitube design. Not many choices in steam boilers of only about 60,000 input.
It does look like they did improve the thermal efficiency over the Independence..its now 81 %. I remember testing the Independence and they had very high stack temperatures. This was probably why they failed so early, too high of casting temperatures at the stop of the boiler.

ethicalpaul

Can you tell me which measurement shows the excess air?

Hap_Hazzard

See your combustion gas analyzer user's manual.

ethicalpaul

I don't have a combustion gas analyzer, I was asking for general knowledge

Hap_Hazzard

I don't have one either, but that's how you'd measure it. It's not a direct measurement either; you subtract something from something to calculate it, but I'm fuzzy on the details because I've never done it.

With a combustion analyzer you can measure how much air is being mixed with the gas in the burners and how much is just getting sucked up by convection while the burners are on, and that's the air that's essentially being wasted by an atmospheric. A power burner draws in just about as much air as it needs for complete combustion, and, since the firebox is sealed, nothing else gets in there to escape up the chimney.

Hap_Hazzard

cross_skier said:

If I lived in MA or CT I would fill a couple of five gallon containers with water from a low chloride municipality and use that to feed my boiler over the winter.  You could make the trip an annual vacation.

You can remove chloride with RO or an anion-exchange column. RO might be best because Cl- is a relatively large ion, and if there's a lot of sulfate in the water, the sulfate ions would overwhelm your anion exchange medium, so you'd have to regenerate a bunch of times before you could start removing chloride.

Of course, you could just start with distilled water and add whatever minerals you want to add to it to get the pH, alkalinity, hardness and osmolarity you need. If you run any dehumidifiers during the summer, that's a good source of cheap distilled water, and you can get all kinds of chemicals at a pool store.

EBEBRATT-Ed

@Hap_Hazzard & @ethicalpaul

Power burners have excess air it's just a little bit better controlled. If a atmospheric burner is running 9% Co2 and a power burner is running 9% Co2 they have the same efficiency

Hap_Hazzard

But how realistic is it that you'd get the same numbers for both? Last time I had mine checked, the CO₂ was 6.39%. If you saw that same number on a boiler with a gas gun wouldn't you think there was a problem?

ethicalpaul

Thanks @EBEBRATT-Ed -- So you use the CO2 measurement to determine how much excess air is there?

Steamhead

Hap_Hazzard said:

But how realistic is it that you'd get the same numbers for both? Last time I had mine checked, the CO₂ was 6.39%. If you saw that same number on a boiler with a gas gun wouldn't you think there was a problem?

This.

cross_skier

@ethicalpaul  I believe a manometer is used to determine if there is excess air.  I see them used to make sure draft is in the sweet spot when setting the air shutter and the weight on the 2 way damper is set for Carlin EZ gas conversion burner jobs.