Gorton vents are way too noisy

theONEendONLY

Hello all. I have applied the suggestions from many here but I am still having problems.

Gorton #2 at the end of the main. System cuts out at 1.5psi (confirmed with low pressure gauge) and cuts in at .5. added insulation to mains and branches. I will admit that I haven't insulated any of the branch fittings yet but any straight pipe is covered.

Every steam vent is a brand new gorton. Most of them are Gorton 6s. It's a small cape cod house with 7 radiators. All radiators are pitched.

All the radiator vents hiss way too much. It keeps me up at night. The one in my bedroom hisses the entire time the boiler runs. All radiators get hot.

I am going crazy. What else do I need to try?

EBEBRATT-Ed

is the boiler building and going off on pressure during a normal call for heat?

KC_Jones

Have you done an EDR calculation on the system to see if the boiler is oversized.

@ChrisJ and I both feel anything over a few ounces will make unacceptable noise levels in a one pipe steam system.

I run Gorton vents, they are silent in all scenarios. I feel if you are getting noise from them, it's not the vent, it's something with the system.

ChrisJ

Anything over 1/4 PSI will have noisy vents.

The boiler is way too big from the sound of it.

ethicalpaul

I will add that if most of your radiators have a #6, that is too much radiator venting. But having smaller vents might not help your whistling problem and may hurt.

Do you have any main vents? If not, then way more air is being pushed out of your radiator vents than should be, which could be increasing the amount of whistling you hear.

Finally, you could try to put some baffling material over the hole, such as some cotton, wrapped with tape in such a way that the airflow is not blocked, but the air has to go through the cotton

DanHolohan

If you can hear the vents venting than you don't have enough vents. That's the sound of high-velocity air trying to get out through too small an opening. It's like squeezing the open end of a balloon and letting the air scream its way out. The solution is usually to apply more main venting.

theONEendONLY

No EDR calculation yet. @KC_Jones

Yes it does cycle off on pressure before reaching setpoint @EBEBRATT-Ed

@DanHolohan and @ethicalpaul I have a Gorton #2 on the end of the main (also brand new last year) the main is 2" and 31' long. All the branches are 1". Classic 1950 NJ cape cod house 4 bed 1 bath to give you an idea on size.

There was an old rusty and corroded Gorton 1 there when I moved in, after reading and asking advice here I decided to replace it with a #2. I can hear it puff a little when the boiler starts it's cycle but it's nothing crazy.

Boiler is an osb-3 oil fired combination boiler (does my hot water for the house too) manual says heating capacity AHRI 114 mbh and steam mbh 86

EBEBRATT-Ed

It doesn't sound like your boiler is massively oversized. You want to avoid building pressure if possible. I would add more or larger main vents

Since it's oil a smaller nozzle the next time you have it serviced with a combustion test might slow the steam output and calm things down

Is that boiler like an early 70s Dunkirk or the same boiler rebagged by HB Smith?

Hap_Hazzard

Are you just hearing air escaping, or is there water in the vents? All radiator vents get noisy when water is involved. Sometimes it's just condensation that forms while the vents are cold, and there's not much you can do about that. Some vents have a spout sticking out of the inlet to help them drain, so it's a known issue.

theONEendONLY

@EBEBRATT-Ed it's actually a newer Williamson thermoflo, 2014 or so.

@Hap_Hazzard when I take the vents off and shake them, water will come out. I tried a couple Hoffman's with the spouts and they sounded even worse so I returned them 

Hap_Hazzard

theONEendONLY said:

@Hap_Hazzard when I take the vents off and shake them, water will come out. I tried a couple Hoffman's with the spouts and they sounded even worse so I returned them 

Yeah, it shows they recognized the problem, but their solution didn't really work. I'm having the same issue with some of my Maid-o-Mist vents. It's kind of annoying. It reminds me of a kid with a runny nose. I've managed to minimize it by setting the anticipator on my thermostat to the lowest setting so the radiators don't get so cold between cycles, but it also makes the heating cycles shorter. I'm thinking of trying some capsule type vents to replace the ones I'm having trouble with.

ChrisJ

Does the boiler build pressure before the radiators are all completely hot to the vents? Meaning every section is steaming hot and the vent is burning hot?

If it's building pressure before then, or very close to then we can improve.

theONEendONLY

@ChrisJ radiator and vent hot to the touch before any pressure built up on the test I just ran.

A little water is spitting out of the Gorton's that are the loudest now

ChrisJ

theONEendONLY said:

@ChrisJ radiator and vent hot to the touch before any pressure built up on the test I just ran.

A little water is spitting out of the Gorton's that are the loudest now

When the vent is hot how is the radiator?
It's it almost completely hot top to bottom including the center?

theONEendONLY

@ChrisJ yes I would say so

ChrisJ

theONEendONLY said:

@ChrisJ yes I would say so

To me it sounds like it's all working good based on what you've said except the boiler is too big for the radiation.

Does it do this every time it runs to heat the house normally?!?

My radiators only heat a few sections during most of the winter and only get to the end sections during extreme conditions.

theONEendONLY

@ChrisJ yes every time. As soon as the steam starts to arrive the vents all whistle and sputter. Some of them eventually shut and stay quiet, but one or two make noise the entire time the boiler is running. I've replaced the one in my bedroom with 4 different vents and they are all loud.

 It takes what feels like 20 mins for this to occur from when the thermostat first calls for heat.

Is there anything I can do short of replacing the boiler? It's honestly unbearable.

ChrisJ

theONEendONLY said:

@ChrisJ yes every time. As soon as the steam starts to arrive the vents all whistle and sputter. Some of them eventually shut and stay quiet, but one or two make noise the entire time the boiler is running. I've replaced the one in my bedroom with 4 different vents and they are all loud.

 It takes what feels like 20 mins for this to occur from when the thermostat first calls for heat.

Is there anything I can do short of replacing the boiler? It's honestly unbearable.

Can you please post some pictures of the radiators and the boiler if possible

theONEendONLY

@ChrisJ

Will do. Away for Thanksgiving so I'll have some up here on Saturday

Thank you everyone for taking the time to try to help me. I really appreciate it. Pics coming soon.

wlgann

theONEendONLY said:

As soon as the steam starts to arrive the vents all whistle and sputter. Some of them eventually shut and stay quiet, but one or two make noise the entire time the boiler is running. I've replaced the one in my bedroom with 4 different vents and they are all loud.

 It takes what feels like 20 mins for this to occur from when the thermostat first calls for heat.

Is there anything I can do short of replacing the boiler? It's honestly unbearable.

The vents that continue hissing the entire time do so because the water that's getting into the vent is cool enough to keep the vent from heating to where it closes. You may be screwed if the boiler is truly way oversized but there are still a couple things you might try. Swap out some or all of the radiator vents for smaller ones. Often times the water that comes out of the vent is condensate that's being blown up into the radiator by incoming steam--the tiniest amount of water in the vent will cause it so shriek. Slowing the vent slows the incoming steam and will often allow the condensate to freely flow back down where it belongs.

As @DanHolohan said, you might also want to do the math on whether adding a second main vent will do any good. Meaning, does your existing main vent supply at least as much venting as the nipple it's attached to? If not, consider putting a tee in there and adding a second vent, antler style. The idea being that speeding up the steam in the mains gives it somewhere to go other than flying up the 1" risers toward the radiators at 40 mph, carrying condensate with it.

theONEendONLY

theONEendONLY

@ChrisJ pics added.

@wlgann This is interesting. From advice on earlier posts I think my Gorton 2 is sufficient, but I could try smaller vents on the problem radiators. Would have to order them though. The only spares I have are the same size.

ChrisJ

Are all of the radiators enclosed like that?  What kind of cover goes on them?

theONEendONLY

Most have metal covers like this @ChrisJ

Hap_Hazzard

People should really learn about how radiators work before they build radiator covers. I have some like that in my house too. I've been destroying them one by one and either rebuilding them or just repainting the radiators and leaving them bare.

theONEendONLY

ChrisJ said:

theONEendONLY said:

@ChrisJ radiator and vent hot to the touch before any pressure built up on the test I just ran.

A little water is spitting out of the Gorton's that are the loudest now

When the vent is hot how is the radiator?
It's it almost completely hot top to bottom including the center?





What would it mean if the rads were heating up inconsistently? I just observed another one and I feel like the top middle was less hot than the vent side and the valve side. I'll bring home a laser thermometer tomorrow.

neilc

that would suggest the rad vent is too fast, and steam is jetting right to the vent, and not slowly filling and displacing the air in the cooler areas,

ChrisJ

theONEendONLY said:

ChrisJ said:

theONEendONLY said:

@ChrisJ radiator and vent hot to the touch before any pressure built up on the test I just ran.

A little water is spitting out of the Gorton's that are the loudest now

When the vent is hot how is the radiator?
It's it almost completely hot top to bottom including the center?





What would it mean if the rads were heating up inconsistently? I just observed another one and I feel like the top middle was less hot than the vent side and the valve side. I'll bring home a laser thermometer tomorrow.

What I was looking for is if the steam was shooting across the bottom and getting to the vent long before most of the air was out of the radiator.  If they're doing that you need to slow the vent down a little.

But right now I'm thinking those covers are causing issues honestly.  Curious how the system performs with all of them removed.

theONEendONLY

Oh man. Yeah they're all recessed into the walls like that. I stuck that heat reflective stuff behind most of them (think I ran out on the one that's photographed)

I could run an experiment with them all off during the week. I know the wife will want covers though...

Right now 3/7 rads are uncovered in the house

As for slowing down the rads... I am tempted to just buy a couple varivalves because if I keep having to replace fixed rent vents I might die. Just afraid they'll spit water all over. The Hoffman 1A's are very cheap imo with that cap design.



Another thing I should mention. When I moved in there was a Gorton 1 on the elbow at my near boiler piping, on the condensate return. You can see a plug in my pics that I put in. Yesterday I tried a Gorton 1 there since I'm going crazy and I'll try anything. Some Steam was leaking thru the g1, and then when the boiler finally kicked off and hit setpoint, it started SPRAYING water. Projectile spraying. Not sure if this helps at all but thought I'd mention.

neilc

theONEendONLY said:

When I moved in there was a Gorton 1 on the elbow at my near boiler piping, on the condensate return. You can see a plug in my pics that I put in. Yesterday I tried a Gorton 1 there since I'm going crazy and I'll try anything. Some Steam was leaking thru the g1, and then when the boiler finally kicked off and hit setpoint, it started SPRAYING water. Projectile spraying. Not sure if this helps at all but thought I'd mention.

If I'm not mistaken, that's a counter flow main up there, and the vent you tried would quickly close as steam starts out that main, and short circuits thru the counter flow drip, to that wrong vent location,
what else do you have for main venting?

the projectile water spray suggests a high boiler pressure, pushing boiler water up to that wrong vent,
excessive pressure can be a source of your noisy venting also

what are you set to?
what are you seeing on your gage?
and when was the pigtail checked and cleaned last?
pictures there?

Hap_Hazzard

theONEendONLY said:

Oh man. Yeah they're all recessed into the walls like that. I stuck that heat reflective stuff behind most of them (think I ran out on the one that's photographed)

I could run an experiment with them all off during the week. I know the wife will want covers though...

You can improve the performance of the cover in the photo by putting a sheet of black masonite, or some other thin material, behind the perforated sheet metal on the front and cutting a bunch of holes or slots on the top to let the warm air out. It's already open on the bottom, which is good, but make sure there are no dust bunnies between the tubes. A vacuum with a small crevice tool is your friend.

theONEendONLY

So I cleaned out the pigtail in probably January/February and I just replaced the pressuretrol a few weeks ago. I am confirmed to be cutting out around 1.5 with the new pressuretrol. (The old one was cutting out close to 3 even when I set the dial correctly)

At the very end of the main I have a fresh Gorton 2. I only have one main.

Also the water isn't really that dirty, I tried my best to clean out that gauge glass but it's stained brown.

I haven't had a skim yet, read a lot about that.

Hap_Hazzard

Hmmm. They misspelled "Honeywell."

The gauge glass should come clean with a bottle brush. If you don't have one, roll up a piece of paper towel, twist it, and push it through. You can't get them clean by just rinsing, but I've never seen one actually stained.

ChrisJ

Honeywell created a new company.
Kinda time to let it go.

Hap_Hazzard

I didn't get the memo. I just noticed U.S. Boiler isn't using Burnham in its residential boiler branding anymore. It's hard to keep up with all these changes.