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Main Vent Tapping

mikegcny
mikegcny Member Posts: 18
edited November 21 in THE MAIN WALL
I need to put a Gorton #2 on the end of one of my main lines. The current vent is on an elbow fitting and the end of the main and is tapped 1/8 (elbow fitting goes down to the condensate return / wet return loop) My understanding is that I need at least 1/4 inch for the #2.

My issue is that given the location of the current vent, I cannot get my drill and tap into the location to increase to 1/4.

Can I tap I to the pipe about 6" from the end of the main?

Comments

  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 2,421
    You got a picture of the existing 1/8" vent? There is not enough info in your question as presented.
    Edward Young
    Retired HVAC Contractor from So. Jersey Shore.
    Cleaned & services first oil heating system at age 16
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 10,374
    @mikegcny

    Tapping 1/8" into a pipe or fitting is pretty easy. If you tap into a schedule 40 pipe with 1/4" you won't get many threads due to the curvature of the pipe and the wall thickness of the pipe. 1/4" has more threads/inch than 1/8" does. And it also depends on what size pipe were talking about.

    I would hate to have you try that and have it leak. If you could drill and tap a fitting where it's thicker you would get better results.

    But what i would do is remove the old vent and put a short 1/8 nipple in the old hole then if the nipple points up use a 1/8 x 1/4 reducing coupling with the vent on it.

    If the hole is on the side of the pipe use a 1/8 x 1/4 90 degree elbow.

    a short 1/8 nipple will probably not restrict the vent much

    Not much downside to trying that first
  • mikegcny
    mikegcny Member Posts: 18

  • mikegcny
    mikegcny Member Posts: 18
    You got a picture of the existing 1/8" vent? There is not enough info in your question as presented.
    Here you go Ed


  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 9,001
    You can go farther upstream and drill/tap a 1/4" on the top of the larger pipe.
    As long as the vent is after the last steam take off it is effective.

    I have had good luck with 1/4 tap on the top of pipe that size.
    These vents have strainers ahead of them. May be overkill for you, but this was a job with unknowns at the time,
    as far as debris in the pipe.

    Is that a tee in the pipe below the old vent?
    Where does that pipe come from?
  • mikegcny
    mikegcny Member Posts: 18
    JUGHNE said:
    You can go farther upstream and drill/tap a 1/4" on the top of the larger pipe. As long as the vent is after the last steam take off it is effective. I have had good luck with 1/4 tap on the top of pipe that size. These vents have strainers ahead of them. May be overkill for you, but this was a job with unknowns at the time, as far as debris in the pipe. Is that a tee in the pipe below the old vent? Where does that pipe come from?
    Yes. The tee comes from the condensate return from the other main. 

    The tee is well above the high water line in the boiler. 

    Do you think I could tap the tee?
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 9,001
    Each return line from each main needs to have it's own separate venting system.

    Each return needs to isolated from the others by a water loop, which would mean dropping down into the wet return separately.

    Without this isolation the venting will be closed by the shortest main line.
    The longer main will not get venting and will remain full of air which must be vented by rad vents. This will slow the process down.

    At one time in the past that tee may have been below the water line which would have isolated one return from the other.....newer boiler with lower water line changed this.

    What does the piping look like on the other side of that wall?
  • mikegcny
    mikegcny Member Posts: 18
    edited November 22
    JUGHNE said:



    What does the piping look like on the other side of that wall?

    Hope this is understandable - but this is what it would look like if you were looking at the back wall of my basement.

    The wall in the photo would be just to the left of the vertical pipe on the right.

    Additionally this is the overhead diagram I made of my overall system.

    Edit: was just down the basement looking at this, and is it possible that the #1 air vent in the diagram is not original?




  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 9,001
    The steam will come to the G1 first (short main) and close it.....but G2 is still open and has done only part of it's job venting the longer main. But the steam from 1 heads to 2 and closes it.
    Longer main 2 is only partially vented of air.
    It's rad vents must remove a lot of air from that main.

    Even if #1 vent was not there, the same thing would happen.

    The vents only stop venting air....they do not stop the steam from moving in the pipe.

    Can you get to the pipe that enters the side of the tee, on the other side of the wall?
  • mikegcny
    mikegcny Member Posts: 18
    JUGHNE said:
     Can you get to the pipe that enters the side of the tee, on the other side of the wall?
    Yes I can. Whole basement is open besides this wall.
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 9,001
    Pictures of that side of the wall piping?
  • mikegcny
    mikegcny Member Posts: 18
    edited November 22
    JUGHNE said:
    Pictures of that side of the wall piping?
    Here it is coming from the other main. The shelving on the right of the picture is the other side of the wall in the previous pictures in this post. 





    Another angle of the other main


  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 9,001
    Is that another air vent near the electric panel?

    You could drop the return in that room, run thru the wall to a new lower tee in the other room.
    Put a tee in for an air vent in the horizontal high pipe (ele panel room) before you drop down.

    A fairly involved project, maybe not for this season.

    Though you could add the G2 on top of the pipe in the other room--drill & tap 1/4".
  • mikegcny
    mikegcny Member Posts: 18
    JUGHNE said:
    Is that another air vent near the electric panel? You could drop the return in that room, run thru the wall to a new lower tee in the other room. Put a tee in for an air vent in the horizontal high pipe (ele panel room) before you drop down. A fairly involved project, maybe not for this season. Though you could add the G2 on top of the pipe in the other room--drill & tap 1/4".
    I have the plumbers coming back soon to replace a gas line and some water lines. I could ask them to do it then. 

    This makes complete sense. I just can't imagine the water level being that high with the original boiler. It's only about 1.5 feet from the ceiling. I have the original plans to the house from 1927. The original boiler was supposed to be coal as per the plans, but oil was installed instead. 
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 4,008
    This tee is low enough that I could believe it was below the water line of a 1920's boiler.

    BTW, are you sure the old boiler was installed with an oil burner? They were pretty uncommon and primitive in the 20's but it was very common to add one later in the 40's or 50's to the old coal boiler.


  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 10,374
    The vent to the right of the electrical panel up on the elbow I would remove that and drill and tap and put a larger vent up there.

    Then in the other room with the tee with the copper return in the bottom I would drill and tap that 2 1/2 x 1 1/2??elbow at the top
  • mikegcny
    mikegcny Member Posts: 18
    edited November 23
    mattmia2 said:



    BTW, are you sure the old boiler was installed with an oil burner? They were pretty uncommon and primitive in the 20's but it was very common to add one later in the 40's or 50's to the old coal boiler.


    I was fairly certain. The original plans for the house had the back portion of the basement 'dug out' to make additional room for a coal bin, which is clearly drawn on the plans. The back part of the basement was not dug out, and there is a crawl space there today (Its the opening to the right of the electrical sub panel). I assumed since they did not need additional room for the coal bin they simply did not have the coal bin. I was wrong....

    I just wend downstairs and read the floor and the walls. I was able to make out a line on the wall to the right of the boiler which was the coal bin, and then trace it across the floor, where it makes a 90 and then goes to the wall with the Bilco door. So cool. I was always able to tell the location of the original boiler since the concrete floor is a bit raised up and cracked, and there is the obvious outline of it in the cement. It is also located about 1.5 feet central to the basement. I guess this blistering on the concrete floor was from the extreme heat of coal?

    The building permits for my house were filed in December of 1927. House was built and completed in 1928. I am the 3rd owner of the house having purchased it in 2006. The previous owner purchased it in 1953 and did no work on the house. Although run down, I was kind of a time machine when we got it.
  • mikegcny
    mikegcny Member Posts: 18
    edited November 23



    Then in the other room with the tee with the copper return in the bottom I would drill and tap that 2 1/2 x 1 1/2??elbow at the top

    Edit - Re-read. I can't tap that elbow because of the wood panel to the right of it. I thought you are actually supposed to tap 15" before an elbow?

  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 9,001
    If you are changing the piping then the new piping could incorporate tees with 3/4" branch tap, well above the water line level, on the vertical drops to install main vents.

    As long as the 2 returns connect together well below the water line.
    Valves and hose bibs for flushing are a good idea also.