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Blue corrosion on all copper press-fit coupling fittings

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Comments

  • Paul Pollets
    Paul Pollets Member Posts: 3,450
    In most real estate sales, the new owner buys the home "as is", unless a building inspector has been hired to examine and report his findings. If so, there may be liability against the inspector and the company if an item was missed. Some new owners purchase an insurance policy to cover any unseen faults that are revealed for the first year of occupancy.
  • marius888
    marius888 Member Posts: 10

    From the deterioration of the polyethylene foam pipe insulation, I would say this is a very, very old installation. The press-fit fittings are probably first generation. I would also assume that the system has glycol in it. If the fluid is acidic, the orings would probably not fair well. Anti-freeze doesn't last forever.

    Sorry to say, You may need to replace the press-fit fittings. A water sample sent to Rhomar would be very helpful in understanding the problem, as suggested.

    How many press-fit fittings do you have and are they accessible? You do have soldered joints, I see.

    A cheap fix, I would try this because I'm cheap. Drain the system, clean the press-fit fitting to pipe joint with emery cloth tape, ruffing up the pipe and the fitting and removing all the corrosion, clean the joint with lacquer thinner, then put a bead of JB Weld around the joint. Let it set up for 24 hrs before refilling the sys. Epoxy continues to harden over time, the longer you wait, the stronger it gets. If you just want it looking nice, clean the joint with a stainless steel scouring pad.

    As my mentor said, "If the rate of evaporation exceeds the rate of drip, you don't have a leak."

    the house was build in 2004 and they installed the heating system around that time.
  • marius888
    marius888 Member Posts: 10
    SuperTech said:


    marius888 said:

    @marius888

    is this part of your heating system? Do you know if this system contains antifreeze

    Yes, from what I'm observing only the heating system is affected.
    I'm not sure if the system contains antifreeze or not, I'm planning to test what is inside, already in discussion with the guys from rhomarwater to see what they need.
    I'm starting to think that I should replace the whole heating system + pipes, I have 4 zones (two hydro, one baseboard and one indirect water heater ).

    Two hydro air units....is one in the attic? I would bet it is. If so then I would bet your system has glycol antifreeze in it and that is the root of your problem.  The glycol is probably old and needs replacing anyway, I'd dump it and repair all leaks with soldered joints.

    After some serious detective work I was able to trace the company that installed the system and yes has glycol antifreeze.
    The owner is saying it was service yearly and they did the proper maintenance. but I'm suspecting he is just lying
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 9,219
    There are many definitions of "proper maintenance".
    Somewhere between 20 minutes or 3 hours.
    Most homeowners don't know that they don't know.
    mattmia2MikeAmann
  • HomerJSmith
    HomerJSmith Member Posts: 1,414
    2004, well that pretty much kills the glycol. The pro fit was probably a repair or addition after the initial installation. I believe in testing. I get into trouble when I assume that what the customer is telling me is what IS. Trust, but verify! You can assume the glycol is still OK, but for how long? I recommend fixing leaks, draining, flushing, and a new glycol fill if needed.
  • Derheatmeister
    Derheatmeister Member Posts: 1,208
    edited November 2021
    "hot_rod" said:

    Richard, most oil change shops will take small quantities of glycol, 5 gallon buckets. Pretty much any dealer or repair shop has glycol recycling same with O Reilly auto parts, etc.
    They do mix EG and PG in the recycling drums, it's tough to know which is in vehicles these days.
    Safety Kleen takes large quantities, drums, but for a fee.

    Most airports recycle the glycol de-icers. It goes into a bio pond for a few days for O2 exposure then into the sewer system if it is not recycled.

    Actually EG breaks down quicker than PG and used to be used for deicers. Info I learned from the Dow engineers that did a seminar for Coffee with Caleffi.



    Thanks for the infomation regarding the recycling at O Reilly's..Did not know that !
    We collect it in 55 Gallon drums,Low E in Denver picks it up and takes it down to Chemical Specialties for refinement.
    Most plumbers around here just dump it down the drain..
    In Europe this is highly illegal for various reasons.

    1. Any Heavy Metal that is entrained is hard to remove by the sewer treatment plants.
    Dumping glycol is no different than what the mining industrie used to do in the 1800.
    Here in Colorado we still have rivers that are affected by these practices

    2. Some Glycols have Phosphorus properties which is very bad for the enviroment/Aquatic life.

    3. They Rather punch the Wine with it versus putting it down the Drain.... :D
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 4,286
    I always wondered what was in four loko.
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 11,062
    Some of those fittings are probably past saving but if it was my own house I would clean up the ones that aren't too bad and braze them like refrigeration fittings.
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 4,286
    that could get interesting with the o-rings
    DerheatmeisterPC7060
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 2,552
    mattmia2 said:
    that could get interesting with the o-rings
    It’s doable. The O-Rings burn away. You would have to clean them up really well. 
    Derheatmeister
  • Derheatmeister
    Derheatmeister Member Posts: 1,208
    pecmsg said:


    mattmia2 said:

    that could get interesting with the o-rings

    It’s doable. The O-Rings burn away. You would have to clean them up really well. 



    We should make a video of someone trying to Braze a Pro press joint....Ha :D
    mattmia2
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 15,358

    2004, well that pretty much kills the glycol. The pro fit was probably a repair or addition after the initial installation. I believe in testing. I get into trouble when I assume that what the customer is telling me is what IS. Trust, but verify! You can assume the glycol is still OK, but for how long? I recommend fixing leaks, draining, flushing, and a new glycol fill if needed.

    depending on the quality of the original glycol and how it was installed, glycol can last 20 years. Dirty systems, hard mix water, Oxygen ingress, and constant over-heating tend to break down the inhibitors. The Ph is the indicator, and Rhomar can determine that.

    Regardless of bad glycol, low Ph, it should not seep around that many joints. EPDM o-rings can handle glycolic acid, which is what you get when glycol inhibitors break down.

    The crimp connection on some air vents and threaded fittings also experience this fuzz, sometimes. It's a tough fluid to work with. Hard to purge air out of also.

    Makes one wonder if the stains appear outside the joint does O2 get into the system, like a non-barrier tube? It's that "molecular" level term that concerns me:0
    Be a bummer if some O-ring seal fittings are allowing O2 into hydronics.

    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 15,358
    edited November 2021

    "hot_rod" said:

    Richard, most oil change shops will take small quantities of glycol, 5 gallon buckets. Pretty much any dealer or repair shop has glycol recycling same with O Reilly auto parts, etc.
    They do mix EG and PG in the recycling drums, it's tough to know which is in vehicles these days.
    Safety Kleen takes large quantities, drums, but for a fee.

    Most airports recycle the glycol de-icers. It goes into a bio pond for a few days for O2 exposure then into the sewer system if it is not recycled.

    Actually EG breaks down quicker than PG and used to be used for deicers. Info I learned from the Dow engineers that did a seminar for Coffee with Caleffi."

    Thanks for the infomation regarding the recycling at O Reilly's..Did not know that !
    We collect it in 55 Gallon drums,Low E in Denver picks it up and takes it down to Chemical Specialties for refinement.
    Most plumbers around here just dump it down the drain..
    In Europe this is highly illegal for various reasons.

    1. Any Heavy Metal that is entrained is hard to remove by the sewer treatment plants.
    Dumping glycol is no different than what the mining industrie used to do in the 1800.
    Here in Colorado we still have rivers that are affected by these practices

    2. Some Glycols have Phosphorus properties which is very bad for the enviroment/Aquatic life.

    3. They Rather punch the Wine with it versus putting it down the Drain.... :D
    Always best to recycle. I visited a glycol recycler in Missouri. they filter, then RO old glycol. Add inhibitor packages depending on the use, and re-color it.

    The glycol that is recycled is a blend of EG and PG, since cars use both types now. So I would not use recycled glycol if it could come in contact with potable water.

    Hydronic glycol should start with new glycol, corn based glycol if you are a true purist.
    The solar glycol Caleffi sold was plant based.

    Hard to say no to antifreeze with a shredder as the spokes-model :)
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    Derheatmeister