100 yr old steam boiler

hersheys247

I have a very old steam boiler and does not have a combination gas valve.  All parts are separated.  The gas valve is no longer working and is stuck.  I had a technician diagnosis it and notes that is the issue.  

First question:  do they make a gas solenoid like this anymore?

Second question:  he did mention he can install a combination gas valve but the issue we are running into is that it has 2 thermocouples and the combination gas valves only have 1, do they make anything for dual thermocouples that can be incorporated or even a dual thermocouple combination gas valve.

please if any help that would be great.  I am trying to save up just in case worst case scenario is to replace. 

Thank you

mattmia2

I think Baso makes the controls you will need. Might not be able to use a standard combination valve but they certainly have the controls you would need to convert it to total shutoff.

EBEBRATT-Ed

The problem is you have 2 pilots to prove and they both have to be proven to allow the main burner to light

EBEBRATT-Ed

@mattmia2 is right. I think this could be the valve you need.

But it is long past time to replace the boiler. Maybe this will get you through the winter

That valve is rated at 240,000 btu/hr. Don't know if that is enough

hersheys247

Omg, you guys are awsome!!! I will send this over to my service technician so he can check it out.

thank you, I will update soon

retiredguy

You could a Honeywell gas valve Model VR8300A4508 or VR300A3518 and keep the standing pilots and Baso switches or a combination gas valve utilizing one of the pilots and keep the 2nd pilot and one Baso switch tied in series with the gas valve control circuit. White Rodgers also has a gas valve that will work Model 36003-300.

hersheys247

@EBEBRATT-Ed  @mattmia2     Sorry, would I also need another component that would receive the 24v when heat is called.  I believe that is how it is on my old gas valve, it would get the call for heat and open the valves.  They did measure 24v... sorry for my ignorance 

hersheys247

retiredguy said:

You could a Honeywell gas valve Model VR8300A4508 or VR300A3518 and keep the standing pilots and Baso switches or a combination gas valve utilizing one of the pilots and keep the 2nd pilot and one Baso switch tied in series with the gas valve control circuit. White Rodgers also has a gas valve that will work Model 36003-300.

@retiredguy that gas valve u showed, the Honeywell model VR8300A4508 or VR400A3518, u saying I could use that and keep the stand pilots and BASO switches, how would I connect the dual thermocouple or connect the gas valve to the BASO  switches as a safety since the gas valve is only 1 thermocouple... mind you I would not be doing this, I do have a licensed contractor 

EBEBRATT-Ed

@hersheys247

I assumed you had two thermocouples but I can only see one clearly. Your going to have to rely on your contractor to pick the right parts and install something that will give you a safe system

hersheys247

@EBEBRATT-Ed

you are correct, I do have 2 thermocouples, but they go to the 2 separate BASO switches which then power the gas solenoid as when both switches I believe are not reset then they provide the power to the gas solenoid.  I hope I you could chime in, as the contractor is also not familiar with such an old unit, but I need it to last at least the winter until they can replace it during the off peek .

are you saying with this setup, the BASO g292 will not work? 😢

mattmia2

I think what you could do, and maybe someone else here could tell me, is you could connect one thermocouple to the new combination valve where it has the normal thermocouple connection and connect this combination switch and pilot valve to the other pilot so its valve will shut off the pilot if it goes out and connect the 24vac contacts of this switch in series with the 24vac control connection to the new gas valve so this pilot must be lit for the combination valve to get 24vac:

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Baso-Gas-Products-L62GB-3C-SPST-Manual-Reset-Pilot-Switch-w-100-Shutoff-Universal-Mounting-Plate

I'm sure there are multiple ways to do this.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Looks to me like the Baso valve I posted above can have 2 thermocouples connected to it so I don't think you would need anything else.

But it's hard to tell without being on site.

Have your tech call Baso or someone and tell them what you have and follow their recommendations

JUGHNE

This boiler from the 60's had 4 standing pilots. (this did get all cleaned up with new pilot tubing and T-couples BTY)

The second picture is what the first 3 pilots had....the first one holds the 2nd on etc.
(does not pertain to your situation, but I thought I would expound on this for the younger people looking here....fairly rare design)

If any one pilot went out it would drop out the down stream pilot until the electric switch opened shutting down the main gas valve.

The first picture is the 4th pilot and holds an electric switch on which opens the gas valve when other controls/tstat calls for heat.
This needs it's own regulator/valve tapped off of a tee ahead the standard gas valve.

It has gas supply in....gas out to pilot......Tcouple to hold pilot on and close switch....red lever to hold in while lighting pilot light. And electric switch to be in series with power to gas valve.

You could use the electric one for the 1st pilot (you do not have one)...if that pilot failed it could open the 24 vac to the gas valve.

You would have to have a tap in the gas line with a regulator for the 1st pilot.

Use the regular gas valve pilot and t-couple for the 2nd pilot to shut down the main valve as normal.

If the second pilot failed then the gas valve would not open, just like normal operation.

If the second pilot failed the first pilot would still burn.....if it failed it would shut down it's gas and also the 24 vac to gas valve.

If the first pilot remained on, no problem.

I believe this is what retiredguy had in mind.

You only need a new standing pilot gas valve, and the BASO switch mentioned above....I would also change the T-couples while in there. Your new gas valve would most likely have a regulator and you could eliminate the one you have.

In the case of the boiler I referred to, (over 1 million btu/1 1/4" gas valve) It was a long 60-90 seconds for main gas valve to close for flame out.
At least it had been converted from LP to NG so most gas would go up the flue.

I see you have the delayed ignition "screen door spring" door relief mechanical mechanism in place.

I believe you also have "live" pilots....that is if the flame goes out the pilot gas continues to flow.....not to worry this is just the way it was. That live NG would float up and out of the chimney.

Steamhead

retiredguy said:

You could a Honeywell gas valve Model VR8300A4508..... a combination gas valve utilizing one of the pilots and keep the 2nd pilot and one Baso switch tied in series with the gas valve control circuit.

This is what I would do. Keep it simple, especially if the boiler is to be replaced soon.

tim smith

Agree with steamhead, clean the mess up 1st, burners, pilots, new baso thermocouples. Put combo valve on, delete old regulator, use one baso A100 wired in series with main valve off one pilot and the other pilot off the combo valve. Make sure he clocks gas meter and sets the gas pressure accordingly. Then checks combustion with analyzer. MUST BE DONE BY EXPERIENCED TECH. this is only for general idea, your tech must decide on safe actions.
Btw, these are very common items we keep on our shelves for our work.

mattmia2

JUGHNE said:

I see you have the delayed ignition "screen door spring" door relief mechanical mechanism in place.

Perhaps the new valve should be slow opening.

motoguy128

Couldn’t you also use 2 DSI with controllers in series, The “MV” on the first controller will power the second controller. Second controller powers the gas valve.

Not sure which option is cheaper, but nice to use common parts most technicians carry on the van.

hersheys247

tim smith said:

Agree with steamhead, clean the mess up 1st, burners, pilots, new baso thermocouples. Put combo valve on, delete old regulator, use one baso A100 wired in series with main valve off one pilot and the other pilot off the combo valve. Make sure he clocks gas meter and sets the gas pressure accordingly. Then checks combustion with analyzer. MUST BE DONE BY EXPERIENCED TECH. this is only for general idea, your tech must decide on safe actions. Btw, these are very common items we keep on our shelves for our work.

When you say “clocks gas meter and sets gas pressure accordingly”. Are you referring to the water column? I had the first technician who came in, mentioned he could’t read the writings on the old gas valve and was unable to accurately get the original pressure because he was unable to read the values.  Is there another way to know the exact number without that information.  He mentioned he wasn’t versed in “steam boilers”, but the second technician didn’t mention about it being a problem, he was more concerned about getting the 2 thermocouples to the single gas valve, but you guys have already answered that question for us, which I greatly appreciate!!!

mattmia2

The markings won't help you. It is a matter of reading the ratings plate on the boiler, looking at the sizes of the orifices, and taking a guess at what the firing rate should be then seeing how it reacts(usually coal boilers weren't intended to be fired at their full rate all the time, there was some allowance for the fire to die down and to be able to put more coal in it). You need a really good tech with experience setting up conversion burners. There is a certification for those trained in combustion analysis, finding those people would be a good place to start. The second person might be qualified for this, but you almost need the person that knows about the parts to cascade 2 thermocouples.