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Taco no 105 - 1 circulator

1928steam
1928steam Member Posts: 40
Circulator started buzzing (like the buzz of a dryer or alarm clock) intermittently as if trying to start but unable to … it is for an added baseboard zone off steam heat in the rest of the house.  It’s very old and we haven’t done anything to it in the 14 years we’ve lived here, the guys who clean our furnace aren’t familiar with the set up and just scratch their heads.  Now it appears to be broken. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Comments

  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 19,960
    I notice two pumps in that second to the last picture? What does the other one do?

    But that Taco you are taking pictures of has lived a long, and no doubt useful life. And is well past its best by date. It is very likely that a good heating man can find a replacement for it, and it might even just drop right in.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • 1928steam
    1928steam Member Posts: 40
    I don’t know.
  • 1928steam
    1928steam Member Posts: 40
    Thanks for responding.  The Taco seems to be for the upper feed and the smaller unmarked pump seems to be for the lower feed.
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 12,658
    Time for a new pump. That one has got to be 50+ years old, maybe 60
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 10,044
    IIRC, that smaller pump with the solder connections was often used for recirculation for DHW systems.
    SuperTech
  • 1928steam
    1928steam Member Posts: 40
    A few more photos …
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 12,658
    @JUGHNE

    connected to the black pipe the smaller pump must be the boiler water side of the shell & tube heat exchanger
  • 1928steam
    1928steam Member Posts: 40
    Sadly I don’t understand, but smaller pump is not connected to black pipe … more pictures …
  • 1928steam
    1928steam Member Posts: 40
    Small pump goes around to front of boiler.
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 4,280
    edited November 2021
    1928steam said:

    Sadly I don’t understand, but smaller pump is not connected to black pipe

    LOOK HERE!


    That small pump is a Taco 006 B pump. it is made of Nonferrous metals to resist rust and corrosion. They are used on open systems like your Domestic Hot Water (DHW) pipes. The water that comes out of an "OPEN" fausett. On "Closed Systems" like a heating system the constantly circulates the same water, we can use iron body pumps. They are less expensive. There is less oxygen in the water in a closed system, so the rust and corrosion is minimal, even over years of use.
    Edward Young
    Retired HVAC Contractor from So. Jersey.
    Services first oil burner at age 16
    P/T trainer for EH-CC.org

  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 12,658
    @1928steam

    Your pictures don't show everything I need to see

    But

    On the back wall behind the boiler you have a shell & tube heat exchanger. The old green Taco pump is located below this. The heat exchanger has 4 pipes going to it

    The two pipes on the end that are piped to the flange and are connected to the old green Taco pump are for your hot water baseboard loop. One pipe goes to the green Taco pump the other pipe rises up to your expansion tank, The green pump circulates water through the baseboard and back to the heat exchanger to be re heated.

    The smaller pump with the sweat connections connected to the copper pipe probably comes out of the boiler goes through the pump into the heat exchanger out of the heat exchanger and back to the boiler. This circulated boiler water to heat the heat exchanger.

    Follow the pipes and see where they go
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 4,280
    edited November 2021
    I don't believe this is a steam boiler. I could be wrong... it ain't the first time. The piping looks like a boiler that has water all the way up to the highest radiator in the house. I would need to see the other side of the boiler to confirm that fact. It may be a Gravity Hot Water system with large Supply and Return piping, Why someone would Install that Burnham boiler without a system circulator is beyond me. But looking at the front, where the burner is will confirm Steam or Hot Water. If it is steam, the near boiler piping is all wrong.

    More Pictures please


    As far as the Taco 105, You can replace that with a Taco 007 F because... if it worked fine since the 3/4" copper retrofit was done years ago, then it is not moving much more than 3 to 4.5 GPH (until it failed) and a 007F will easily move that much water thru a 3/4" copper pipe in that short distance.

    Respectfully Submitted
    Mr. Ed
    Edward Young
    Retired HVAC Contractor from So. Jersey.
    Services first oil burner at age 16
    P/T trainer for EH-CC.org

  • 1928steam
    1928steam Member Posts: 40
    Iron pipe out of back of boiler to the expansion tube.  Two pipes out of flange, one up to pressure gauge and expansion tank, other down to green pump / copper tubing to baseboards.  On the far end of the expansion tube iron pipe to copper tubing and small pump which leads to front of boiler.  Another copper tube comes from front of boiler to water meter to (1) drain and to (2) split, one to water tank and the other through two vent like connections to the iron pipe which connects to pressure meter and expansion tank (above) and copper tubing from baseboards.

  • 1928steam
    1928steam Member Posts: 40
    Steam … 
  • 1928steam
    1928steam Member Posts: 40
    What are the vents?

  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 4,280
    edited November 2021
    Well, there you go, Proven wrong again. that is definitely a steam boiler.

    My advice for the Taco 007 for a replacement pump still is good!

    The last two pictures are a bit confusing. Those parts are for a hot water boiler system, not a steam system. Perhaps you have a Hybrid Steam / Hot water "Closed" system.

    The part that separates the two systems is the Tube in Shell heat exchanger. Steam boiler water (from below the water line) is pumped thru the shell. The tube end is a closed system that needs all the parts of a closed system like a water feeder and air vents expansion tank and 30 PSI relief valve. The radiators (probably the baseboards) on that side of the system need to be filled with water to properly heat. That is the side of the system feed by the old 105 pump.

    The smaller pump is on the "Open" side or the "steam" side (below the water line) of the heat exchanger will be subject to more corrosive water conditions therefore the need for the Bronze Pump.

    If the only problem your are experiencing is the noisy circulator, then get a Taco 007F and and some new flange bolts. make sure you put the new circulator in so the water will flow in the same direction and the old pump. (look for the arrows on the cast iron pump body before you remove it)

    https://www.supplyhouse.com/Taco-007-F5-007-Cast-Iron-Circulator-1-25-HP-1983000-p
    Edward Young
    Retired HVAC Contractor from So. Jersey.
    Services first oil burner at age 16
    P/T trainer for EH-CC.org

  • 1928steam
    1928steam Member Posts: 40
    Near boiler piping all wrong?  Thank you for your help.
  • Joe Mattiello
    Joe Mattiello Member Posts: 646
    Wow! that's an old pump. I thought it was the original Perfector, 195 pump, actually the first generation of what evolved into 00 family of pumps. not familiar with the 105, and that might predate that too.

    I'm going to ask Johnny if he knows about it; I'm sure he does, I just like to ask him because he's so passionate about Taco products, especially these old ones that have been providing service for so many years. BTW, I believe the warranty has expired.
    the Taco 007e will be a great replacement utilizing ECM technology, and super efficient. I'll do a little research and get back on. thanks
    Joe Mattiello
    N. E. Regional Manger, Commercial Products
    Taco Comfort Solutions
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 12,658
    @EdTheHeaterMan

    It's steam with a hot water loop. 1 pump for boiler water (the bronze pump I think) and one for the other side of the hx. Second picture down in original post shows shell & tube HX with aquastat
    EdTheHeaterMan
  • Solid_Fuel_Man
    Solid_Fuel_Man Member Posts: 2,518
    You have a closed loop hot water system off of your open loop steam system. 

    The shell and tube heat exchanger separates the two systems. 

    You must have hot water above the waterline of the steam boiler. Otherwise you wouldn't need a pressurized water part.
    Serving Northern Maine HVAC & Controls. I burn wood, it smells good!
  • SteveSan
    SteveSan Member Posts: 140
    edited November 2021
    Here are the specs on your 105-1 1625RPM, 1/10hp, max pressure 30psi, Max gpm 40 max head 8.5, and Flange to flange 9".
  • Dave H_2
    Dave H_2 Member Posts: 510
    @SteveSan Do you know how old this circ is? I haven't run across those numbers before.

    As for the replacement circ to use, yes the 007 would work best. Very close to the performance of the 105. However, not being too sure of the piping and all, if this circ is connected to the steam side of the boiler and not a coil, I would consider the stainless steel circs rather than cast iron. These are two different types of circs, wet-rotor (007) and direct connected (105).

    Dave H.
    Dave H
  • SteveSan
    SteveSan Member Posts: 140
    Unfortunately I don't Dave but asking around to the old timers here at Taco for more information.
    Erin Holohan Haskell
  • 1928steam
    1928steam Member Posts: 40
    Thank you all for your help.  Still struggling here to figure out what I have, but it seems pretty clear I need at least one new circulator. Can anyone recommend someone in the Princeton NJ area?
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 12,658
    Try @Ezzy or @clammy send them a private message. They are very busy haven't seen them on here much. Check "find a contractor" on this site
    1928steam
  • SteveSan
    SteveSan Member Posts: 140
    @1928steam I sent you a private message last week. Like Dave H and others have said you could use our 007 series and if this is a steam system then go with a SS 007. We are interested in getting the 105-1 back at Taco to put in our library and will be willing to sent you out the 007 you need.
  • SteveSan
    SteveSan Member Posts: 140
    Was able to find a copy of the submittal for the 105-1.
    Erin Holohan HaskellSolid_Fuel_ManTinman
  • Awesome! Hey Steve, any warranty left on this bad boy (kidding if course). Reminds me of the 100 year old light bulb in that firehall.

    Dave H - you or John B want the old unit for our museum?
    Erin Holohan Haskell
  • SteveSan
    SteveSan Member Posts: 140
    I'm in contact with the customer Steve, going to send him a 007-F5 and send postage to get the 105-1 for the Taco Library.
  • Solid_Fuel_Man
    Solid_Fuel_Man Member Posts: 2,518
    See! If you have a cool old circulator, you get a free 007! 

    Those Taco boys are the real deal. 
    Serving Northern Maine HVAC & Controls. I burn wood, it smells good!
    SteveSan
  • 1928steam
    1928steam Member Posts: 40
    edited December 2021

  • 1928steam
    1928steam Member Posts: 40
    I oiled it, and it’s working again.  How much oil should I be using?  Thanks.
  • Shouldn't need more than a few drops of oil. Good question.
  • 1928steam
    1928steam Member Posts: 40
    I may have used detergent oil to oil the motor on the Circulator pump.  In any event it starts, continues spinning for 10 minutes, starts to buzz, then stops spinning and then starts to smoke.  Any ideas?
  • Solid_Fuel_Man
    Solid_Fuel_Man Member Posts: 2,518
    Ideas? Replace the 50+ year old circulator.....
    Serving Northern Maine HVAC & Controls. I burn wood, it smells good!
    SuperTechMikeAmannmattmia2
  • pedmec
    pedmec Member Posts: 664
    I can't believe you have a shell and tube heat exchanger in a residential property. That heat exchanger is overkill considering that its not the primary source. As stated by others the circulator has seen better days. @SteveSan could probably match you up with a comparable model that is more efficient.
  • Solid_Fuel_Man
    Solid_Fuel_Man Member Posts: 2,518
    @pedmec how would you incorporate  closed loop water above a steam boiler in residential setting? 
    Serving Northern Maine HVAC & Controls. I burn wood, it smells good!