Becket Oil burner whining noise.

ccscott

Hello, hope this post is in the right forum and thanks in advance for any advice.

Getting ready for heating season and doing some prep on a Burnham v7 steam boiler with Beckett AFG burner in a house we bought back in April. Does a great job of heating the home but needed some work.

Did some initial maintenance and every thing seemed fine, but starting it up again last night I noticed a "whining" noise coming from the burner. Not sure if it made this noise back in April or not, or on the first test this year. Is a certain amount of pump whine normal?

Boiler has a A2VA-7116 pump on the boiler. The tank is buried underground outside of the basement wall. The lines come through the basement wall about 4 feet above the boiler so it gravity feeds pretty well. It is a 2 pipe system, with a filter in the supply line

Work I've done so far in prep for heating season:

1) Changed filter, and added a ball valve right before the filter.
2) Changed nozzle with exact replacement
3) Fixed leaking gasket around tankless water heater cover on the boiler itself
4) Replaced all combustion chamber insulation other than the target wall.

From what I read it could be a clogged pump strainer or some sort of air leak? Could an air leak still be possible even with the gravity feed?

It still work and run smoothly, there is just this noise.

ccscott

Wanted to add that I've just order a strainer and gasket.

When changing these, obviously need to shut off the valve from the supply line, but since this burner is well below the tank, is there a chance that oil could flow back through the pump through the return line?

ccscott

Link to a video with the noise.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/3qW7GbGs1dZvWQTR8

HVACNUT

What's the pump pressure, and is it steady or fluctuating?
What's the vacuum reading?
What's the numbers on your combustion test?

If the answer to any of these questions is "I don't know", then you need a qualified tech. 

ccscott

I appreciate that. I don't know as I don't have the tools to perform these tests.

Did you listen to the noise I posted?

ccscott

Closer inspection shows that a little oil is seeping out around where the ball valve threads into the filter. Very little, not even enough to drop, but it's damp. Could this be the cause?

Jamie Hall

I wouldn't describe that as a whine, and it really sounds to me more or less normal as a combination of fan and combustion noise -- but my hearing isn't all it used to be.

However, if you changed the nozzle, even with what appears to be an exact replacement, you do need to do a combustion test as @HVACNUT suggested. No two nozzles are exactly alike, and while one can get into the general ballpark with straight replacement, it won't be as good as it could be -- and perhaps worse, you have no way of knowing that the previous adjustment had been done properly.

ccscott

Jamie Hall said:

I wouldn't describe that as a whine, and it really sounds to me more or less normal as a combination of fan and combustion noise -- but my hearing isn't all it used to be.

However, if you changed the nozzle, even with what appears to be an exact replacement, you do need to do a combustion test as @HVACNUT suggested. No two nozzles are exactly alike, and while one can get into the general ballpark with straight replacement, it won't be as good as it could be -- and perhaps worse, you have no way of knowing that the previous adjustment had been done properly.

Thanks for taking the time to listen to it. So that slight high pitched noise could be considered normal?

Downside of not doing combustion tests?

Jamie Hall

ccscott said:

Jamie Hall said:

I wouldn't describe that as a whine, and it really sounds to me more or less normal as a combination of fan and combustion noise -- but my hearing isn't all it used to be.

However, if you changed the nozzle, even with what appears to be an exact replacement, you do need to do a combustion test as @HVACNUT suggested. No two nozzles are exactly alike, and while one can get into the general ballpark with straight replacement, it won't be as good as it could be -- and perhaps worse, you have no way of knowing that the previous adjustment had been done properly.

Thanks for taking the time to listen to it. So that slight high pitched noise could be considered normal?

Downside of not doing combustion tests?

Excess fuel consumption, mostly. Plus sooting up the inside of the boiler and the chimney. Or, in the other direction, poor or unreliable ignition... And excess fuel consumption, oddly.

ccscott

Jamie Hall said:

ccscott said:

Jamie Hall said:

I wouldn't describe that as a whine, and it really sounds to me more or less normal as a combination of fan and combustion noise -- but my hearing isn't all it used to be.

However, if you changed the nozzle, even with what appears to be an exact replacement, you do need to do a combustion test as @HVACNUT suggested. No two nozzles are exactly alike, and while one can get into the general ballpark with straight replacement, it won't be as good as it could be -- and perhaps worse, you have no way of knowing that the previous adjustment had been done properly.

Thanks for taking the time to listen to it. So that slight high pitched noise could be considered normal?

Downside of not doing combustion tests?

Excess fuel consumption, mostly. Plus sooting up the inside of the boiler and the chimney. Or, in the other direction, poor or unreliable ignition... And excess fuel consumption, oddly.

Thanks again. That's what I expected with the fuel consumption part of it. So I probably will have someone come out to do the combustion test and will go ahead and replace the strainer in the pump as well. I understand that this v-7 boilers had some issues on the early models but this one seems to be ok after all these years. Love not having forced air btw.

Some context..it's an 87 year and the next door neighbors, and older couple, well it was her childhood home, her parents were the 2nd owners. The 3rd owners were their daughter and son-in-law so we do have some history on the boiler. Was told it was serviced every year by the same tech up through at least 2015. Was installed in the late 90's I believe, so we might use the tech who worked on it consistently in the past.

Forgot to add that when I fixed the leaky gasket around the plate for the tankless heater, I also ordered some cleaning brushes from supply house and cleaned out the nipples and combustion chamber and it didn't look too bad inside, but do I really know what I'm looking at..

gennady

You have high vacuum in suction line. If you cleaned oil pump strainer (for that you need to remove square cover with 4 screws), oil line filter, with no result, then you need to blow out suction line up to oil tank to remove restriction.

ccscott

gennady said:

You have high vacuum in suction line. If you cleaned oil pump strainer (for that you need to remove square cover with 4 screws), oil line filter, with no result, then you need to blow out suction line up to oil tank to remove restriction.

Did you listen to the clip? Is high vaccum even possible when it is a two line system with the tank above the burner and no overhead lines?

It starts and runs ok, but I'm going to change the strainer for sure.

STEVEusaPA

Yes...high vacuum can also be from a restriction. I listened to the clip, can't really tell anything.
I just wonder why you wouldn't get a qualified tech in there to properly clean and tune (and diagnose) the equipment.
Proper tools and know how can solve the problem quicker and cheaper than throwing the parts cannon at it hoping to get it right.
And like the others said, proper combustion test/set up.

The first thing that I noticed is the amount of hair/dust/lint that has built up around the combustion air intakes. I'd probably pull the motor and/or pump and clean that housing along with the blower wheel, and make sure the end cone and the nozzle assembly are clean. And the first time I touch a burner I'm going to set the Z dimension and mark the escutcheon plate.
It also looks like no one has ever pulled the burner to properly clean the boiler.

ccscott

STEVEusaPA said:

Yes...high vacuum can also be from a restriction. I listened to the clip, can't really tell anything.
I just wonder why you wouldn't get a qualified tech in there to properly clean and tune (and diagnose) the equipment.
Proper tools and know how can solve the problem quicker and cheaper than throwing the parts cannon at it hoping to get it right.
And like the others said, proper combustion test/set up.

The first thing that I noticed is the amount of hair/dust/lint that has built up around the combustion air intakes. I'd probably pull the motor and/or pump and clean that housing along with the blower wheel, and make sure the end cone and the nozzle assembly are clean. And the first time I touch a burner I'm going to set the Z dimension and mark the escutcheon plate.
It also looks like no one has ever pulled the burner to properly clean the boiler.

Thanks. Not sure if you saw my earlier post but I have pulled the burner and cleaned the boiler about a month ago. Replaced all the insulation inside except for the target wall. Replaced the nozzle too. Blower wheel was clean at that time.

I might call a tech in but I guess I just always have a desire to do/understand things myself.

I'm sure it is hard to tell from a clip, but if nothing really stand outs out, it's either not a big issue or just inconclusive.

HVACNUT

ccscott said: I'm sure it is hard to tell from a clip, but if nothing really stand outs out, it's either not a big issue or just inconclusive.

Its inconclusive to you because you don't have the instruments to properly diagnose the problem. 
Heart palpitations can be inconclusive too if you don't go to a Cardiologist.