Another Common Wire Question

TheStressMachine

Steamhead said:

TheStressMachine said:

JakeCK said:

Also those are just pictures of the zone valves. Anything of the transformer its self?

Here is the transformer

Where does the 24-volt wire go from this transformer?

The wiring diagram above shows the current journey downstream from the transformer (upper left) to the TACOS & T-stats.

Zman

TheStressMachine said:

Thanks everybody for the feedback, here's an upgraded diagram with what I'm going to do

• Confirm with multi-meter that TR/L1 is indeed neutral.
  
• Reverse the wires to the T-Stats so that W energizes TH (and my brain doesn't break when I see white/red together).
  
• Upgrade my transformer to 60vac
  
• Connect my common wires to TR/L1 (probably right at the transformer terminal)
  

Any other feedback?

Also, I borrowed a multi-meter and realized I won't see negative when testing neutral vs hot because this is AC. I tested both terminals with one wire on something grounded and didn't get full voltage on either, but one of the terminals showed almost a volt while the other showed nothing, I assume almost a volt is my hot? Any other way to confirm hot vs neutral on 24 VAC?

If you wire it this way, it will work. R on the transformer goes to the red wire. The polarity does not matter to the motor, the smart t-stat cares.

TheStressMachine

Thanks everyone for your patience as I grasp these concepts and shake off concepts from other electrical areas that don't apply.  I now have a better understanding.  It sounds like either of my two most recent diagrams would work, I just need to decide how much I want to get into while the wife gives me "the look" cuz the hot water gets less and less hot the longer it takes me.

HVACNUT

TheStressMachine said:

That diagram isn't correct.
Your new transformer will have R and C.
R will connect to TR on the zone valves and RH on the thermostats.
C will connect to TH/TR on the zone valves and C on the thermostats.
And something tells me you should wire in an inline 5a fuse, or get a transformer with a circuit breaker. 

Wouldn't be surprised if it's not technically correct, just trying to retrofit what I have (everything except the blue wire and T-stat reversal) without getting into too much trouble, but I agree with you that a fuse needs to be present in case I do get into trouble. Seems like your suggestion is essentially reversing the polarity in the system but the end effect of opening and closing of circuits to call on hardware should be the same? Is this diagram more in line with what you're thinking? (Dotted red just represents energized only when circuit closed)

Yes, that puts everything where it should be. 

Zman

HVACNUT said:

TheStressMachine said:

HVACNUT said:

That diagram isn't correct.
Your new transformer will have R and C.
R will connect to TR on the zone valves and RH on the thermostats.
C will connect to TH/TR on the zone valves and C on the thermostats.
And something tells me you should wire in an inline 5a fuse, or get a transformer with a circuit breaker. 

Wouldn't be surprised if it's not technically correct, just trying to retrofit what I have (everything except the blue wire and T-stat reversal) without getting into too much trouble, but I agree with you that a fuse needs to be present in case I do get into trouble. Seems like your suggestion is essentially reversing the polarity in the system but the end effect of opening and closing of circuits to call on hardware should be the same?

Is this diagram more in line with what you're thinking? (Dotted red just represents energized only when circuit closed)

Yes, that puts everything where it should be. 

The motor needs a common. It works the way it is wired now, you just need a common for the t-stat.

JakeCK

I just want to point out that if he has to buy a new transformer that he is already 1/4 of the way to a 3 zone valve controller. And he'd get priority for his dhw and a bunch of fancy leds that tells him which zone is calling for heat. Just saying.

TheStressMachine

JakeCK said:

I just want to point out that if he has to buy a new transformer that he is already 1/4 of the way to a 3 zone valve controller. And he'd get priority for his dhw and a bunch of fancy leds that tells him which zone is calling for heat. Just saying.

Much appreciated, now that I'm comfortable with how this all works it will be fun to look into the controller, I like the idea of setting priority and the status LEDs, and I'm certainly a gadget guy

HVACNUT

Zman said:

TheStressMachine said:

That diagram isn't correct.
Your new transformer will have R and C.
R will connect to TR on the zone valves and RH on the thermostats.
C will connect to TH/TR on the zone valves and C on the thermostats.
And something tells me you should wire in an inline 5a fuse, or get a transformer with a circuit breaker. 

Wouldn't be surprised if it's not technically correct, just trying to retrofit what I have (everything except the blue wire and T-stat reversal) without getting into too much trouble, but I agree with you that a fuse needs to be present in case I do get into trouble. Seems like your suggestion is essentially reversing the polarity in the system but the end effect of opening and closing of circuits to call on hardware should be the same? Is this diagram more in line with what you're thinking? (Dotted red just represents energized only when circuit closed)

Yes, that puts everything where it should be. 

The motor needs a common. It works the way it is wired now, you just need a common for the t-stat.

Understood, but not having the Common on TH/TR and L2 would drive me crazy. 

HVACNUT

TheStressMachine said:

JakeCK said:

I just want to point out that if he has to buy a new transformer that he is already 1/4 of the way to a 3 zone valve controller. And he'd get priority for his dhw and a bunch of fancy leds that tells him which zone is calling for heat. Just saying.

Much appreciated, now that I'm comfortable with how this all works it will be fun to look into the controller, I like the idea of setting priority and the status LEDs, and I'm certainly a gadget guy

The Tekmar 303v was also mentioned. A controller is the way to go.

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

Thanks everyone for your patience as I grasp these concepts and shake off concepts from other electrical areas that don't apply. I now have a better understanding. It sounds like either of my two most recent diagrams would work, I just need to decide how much I want to get into while the wife gives me "the look" cuz the hot water gets less and less hot the longer it takes me.

This has been a great learning tool. Thanks for hanging in there @TheStressMachine!

BTW, I vote for using a zone valve control as well. Much easier to install and fantastic diagnostics.