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Near Boiler Piping

dopey27177
dopey27177 Member Posts: 872
I keep seeing home owners and others ask about what is correct way to pipe a boiler.

Many see some of the great work our contributors do when piping the boilers. They follow the manufacturers recommendations and at the same token correct some problems found in the heating systems, when they leave a job it operates well and there are no returns to the customer.

In this post I am including a drawing from a manufacturer on how the boiler needs to be piped. Key to this is the pipe sizing for this model boiler. Of course you should remember all boilers are not the same size and they will have smaller or larger piping.

When getting an estimate from a contractor for a boiler change out require the contractor to supply the manufacturer, model and install drawing for your new boiler and that he will do the install piping as required by the boiler manufacturer. Get this in writing, do not accept any short cuts to cheapen the install price. The boiler is long term investment in your home and if it is a quality boiler and installed and maintained properly it can last 25 years or more.

Jake

mattmia2

Comments

  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 3,739
    Very good advice. Unfortunately so many owners come here only after they experience the problems of a bad install. I'm not blaming them, it's only natural.

    I would add that every homeowner should demand a proper sizing of a proposed new boiler performed by measuring every radiator in the house to find total radiated sq ft of steam.
    1 pipe Peerless 63-03L in Cedar Grove, NJ, coal > oil > NG
    mattmia2
  • dopey27177
    dopey27177 Member Posts: 872
    Ethicalpaul said:

    The home owner should require a proper sizing of every radiator in the building to arrive at the proper EDR size of the boiler and include the results in the proposal.

    Forgot to include that into my post.

    That was hindsight in my post.

    Jake
    ethicalpaulmattmia2
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 5,506
    Technically installing to the manufacturers' instructions is included in the code, but it is a great idea to reiterate it in the contract.
    ethicalpaul
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 3,739
    Yeah the code that was used by the inspectors of all the installs we see here on HH :wink:
    1 pipe Peerless 63-03L in Cedar Grove, NJ, coal > oil > NG
  • STEAM DOCTOR
    STEAM DOCTOR Member Posts: 1,483
    Agreed with the above, for the most part. I personally (almost) never include EDR survey results. There are people out there who are fishing for free information. They will take that valuable information and give it to the local handyman/plumber...... And keep in mind that manufacturer's recommendations are a minimum. The attached diagram is from Burnham's Independence series. They allow a single 2" boiler riser and a 2" header on a 175,000 btu boiler(input). Do the math on exit velocity. Not good. 
  • dopey27177
    dopey27177 Member Posts: 872
    Dopey said:

    Key to this is the pipe sizing for this model boiler.

    Of course you should remember that all boilers are not the same size. The piping could be smaller or larger.

    The sketch is intended for a home owner thinking of a boiler change out to copy and put in their file for future use.

    And as for Codes LP boiler piping is not is not specified operating and safety controls are, fuel storage, fuel piping. fuel burning equipment, and chimney install are.

    Don"t think I missed much.

    Jake

  • dopey27177
    dopey27177 Member Posts: 872

    Dopey said:

    Key to this is the pipe sizing for this model boiler.

    Of course you should remember that all boilers are not the same size. The piping could be smaller or larger.

    The sketch is intended for a home owner thinking of a boiler change out to copy and put in their file for future use.

    And as for Codes LP boiler piping is not is not specified operating and safety controls are, fuel storage, fuel piping. fuel burning equipment, and chimney install are.

    Don"t think I missed much.

    Jake

  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 3,739

    Dopey said:

    And as for Codes LP boiler piping is not is not specified operating and safety controls are, fuel storage, fuel piping. fuel burning equipment, and chimney install are.

    Tell that to my inspector who initially refused to certify my install because I put in a drop header.
    1 pipe Peerless 63-03L in Cedar Grove, NJ, coal > oil > NG
  • dopey27177
    dopey27177 Member Posts: 872
    Generally a code is a minimum standard.

    The code book or section of the building code should have a sketch or drawing of their pipe requirements and type of pipe to be used.

    I would take that inspector to task at the building department. Your installation is recommended by most quality boiler manufacturers.

    It sounds to me that this guy is or was a paint inspector.

    Jake
    ethicalpaul
  • BobC
    BobC Member Posts: 5,306
    When I had my boiler installed the inspector was miffed because the installer was stuck in traffic so he said the inspection would have to be rescheduled. I overheard him on the phone as he walked to his car - 'Hey I've got some unexpected time, how about 9 holes at Wollaston?"

    To many of these inspectors are political appointees who's skills lie elsewhere.
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
  • clammy
    clammy Member Posts: 2,739
    The reasons HO s get terrible jobs is mostly due to price shopping ,not wanting to pay for a survey to properly size the boiler ,not wanting to change and upgrade 50 year old vents and 100 returns it is always the same story after a while you just had enough and ur done and you don’t care anymore It’s mainly I feel that most see no value in getting it down correctly they just want it done and don’t see nor care on the hows and whys and I truely understand that angle but they see no $ real value in the workmanship and know no difference between a good or total turd sandwich job except when it’s non functioning or extremely expensive to operate . After a while as a contractor you just say uncle and let the flat raters and know nothings do there voodoo and make and take the money it’s the part they do the best it certainly it ain’t the quality workmanship . It’s truely sad but the bright point is sooner or later the old buildings and systems will all be gone Like the dodo . No one will even miss any of it ,just talk about how it used to be . Progress pro press pex . At some point all things must advance and all things must change if not by there own then by natural order of things or that some thing better has come along or so thought . Also being that everyone wants everything that is not seen to be cheap cause no one can see it and it can’t be flaunted to show there wealth to them there not much valve to be had but when it 100 outside or 10 that’s when it matters but it usually to late the bed has been made . I try to stay a person based on reality at least my reality and what I see I know my value and chose not to waste it on those who sole purpose seems to be the art of time suckage so I smile inwardly knowing they get exactly what they deserve being there interest and attitude have gotten them so far this far . It may be that time has gotten me and like old things that have no value I to will have no value but I think I’m ok w that at this point-plus no sense gathering weath where rust and corruption dwell Peace and good luck clammy
    R.A. Calmbacher L.L.C. HVAC
    NJ Master HVAC Lic.
    Mahwah, NJ
    Specializing in steam and hydronic heating
    BobCethicalpaul
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 5,506
    BobC said:

    When I had my boiler installed the inspector was miffed because the installer was stuck in traffic so he said the inspection would have to be rescheduled. I overheard him on the phone as he walked to his car - 'Hey I've got some unexpected time, how about 9 holes at Wollaston?"

    To many of these inspectors are political appointees who's skills lie elsewhere.

    I think it is more that the building department pays far less than a trade so there is little incentive for someone who understands a trade well to work as an inspector.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 12,819
    mattmia2 said:

    BobC said:

    When I had my boiler installed the inspector was miffed because the installer was stuck in traffic so he said the inspection would have to be rescheduled. I overheard him on the phone as he walked to his car - 'Hey I've got some unexpected time, how about 9 holes at Wollaston?"

    To many of these inspectors are political appointees who's skills lie elsewhere.

    I think it is more that the building department pays far less than a trade so there is little incentive for someone who understands a trade well to work as an inspector.
    When I did my stuff my plumbing inspector was ok, but the electrical inspector was dead serious and seemed very good. He also wasn't out to bust chops he just wanted things correct and he looked at everything. There were no signs of laziness or rushing.

    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    ethicalpaul
  • dopey27177
    dopey27177 Member Posts: 872
    To R.A. Calmbacher

    Some people would think what you wrote is sour grapes.
    I dropped out of the business for much the same reason. My customers loved me until they hired contractors to the corrective work. I was a consultant and always found an economical way to restore a steam system. Unfortunately my customer allowed the contractor to do what he thought was needed because my way was to expensive.

    Often my customer would call me 1 or two heating seasons after the corrective work was done and wanted another consult.

    After walking the building and seeing the work that was done and the recommendations that was not done
    I gave my proposal which was much more than the original consult. They asked me to lower the price by up to 25% because they would not be able to sell it the board nor justify the cost of the corrections.

    I knew that their job would be on the line because the original corrections were recommended again and the prior work would have to ripped out.

    This happened to many times, I would go out waste a day or two with no recompense and asked to lower my price.

    I decided I do not need this type of abuse and insult to my intelligence, so I quit.

    Jake
    ethicalpaul