TurboMax Insulation

jad3675

I installed a TurbMoax 23 last week and had forgotten that I had snapped a picture of the inside of the unit from the top down. They advertise '2 inches' of insulation. Which, yeah, I guess it could be 2 inches of compressed insulation.



I had a bag of blow in insulation left over. I managed to rig up a blower with a shop vac and a plastic container and blew some insulation in the voids around the tank. Starting to wonder if I should have used a two part low/no expansion foam instead.

John

mattmia2

Looks a whole lot like they forgot to inject the foam at the factory.

jad3675

mattmia2 said:

Looks a whole lot like they forgot to inject the foam at the factory.

Hm. That had not crossed my mind....

This is from the submittal sheet:
'The tank shall be wrapped in a glass fiber insulating jacket limiting thermal loss to ½ °F per hour'

So, maybe no foam injection?

John

mattmia2

Maybe not. Foam is so much of a better insulator than fiberglass.

jad3675

I emailed Thermo2000 about this - and they said that is the way they are insulated. I find the fact that is compressed a bit odd; I know in wall cavities it's a bad idea to compress batts. R value per inch goes up but the overall R value goes down because you have fewer inches of insulation.

Just seems odd they wouldn't fill the entire cavity with insulation.




John

mattmia2

Probably the upgraded model is filled...

psb75

Thank you very much for posting that photo. I find the insulating methodology disturbing for the reasons discussed. You are NOT supposed to compress fiberglass insulation. It insulates with its greater 'loft' trapping more air. The fiberglass it would take to fill the entire cavity would not be a great expense for the mfg. I thought that almost all tank manufacturers had switched to foam insulation.

jad3675

mattmia2 said:

Probably the upgraded model is filled...

Maybe. I mean, I did buy the stripper model but only because it fit my needs.

They do have this image of a unit on their webpage...which doesn't quite line up with what I have.

jad3675

Funny story, while working out on the exercise bike, I like to watch old episodes of 'This Old House.' One of the episodes from last year (Jamestown Netzero house) had a TurboMax install, and it appears to be the same model I have - a TurboMax 23 (based on the lack of TP gauge and only having 3 coils).
And well, the cut-away doesn't look at all like what mine does on the inside.




John

jad3675

And Turbomax is nothing if not responsive to my dumb questions, though I don't think tightly wrapping the insulation really helps.

JakeCK

Where did you purchase your turbomax?

jad3675

JakeCK said:

Where did you purchase your turbomax?

afsupply.com - zero local dealers in my area, and I figured a tank of water with zero moving parts wouldn't need a lot of warranty support from a distributor.

JakeCK

Any issues purchasing from them? issues with shipping?

mattmia2

I had an issue with shipping but the issue was strictly with UPS freight and a snow storm and taking like a week to make the 9 hour drive from NJ to MI. They kept scheduling delivery appointments, i would take time off work to meet them, they would cancel because of weather then when they finally tried to deliver it I was rushing out of town to deal with a family emergency. Once I got it, the box for the HTP indirect was all beat up and the top cover was cracked like they didn't support the box from tipping over.

jad3675

Zero issues - took about week for the indirect to make it to Ohio from NJ. UPS freight on the other hand....I live on a cul-de-sac and told them when they called to send it on a box truck. It showed up on an 18 wheelers. Props to the driver for being able to back down my street though.

JakeCK

The 18 wheeler was allowed down the street?  

HVACNUT

Insulation aside, don't forget to install a domestic T&P valve. About half the reverse indirect's I see don't have one because they think the 30 psi relief valve is it. The other half don't bother with the mixing valve and keep the tank at 120°. Always shaking my head. 
If your domestic is 3/4, an 1-1/4 × 3/4 × 3/4 sweat tee and a 3/4 street x female in the run so the T&P goes right down in. 3/4 off the bull to the mixing valve. 
Same setup on the cold so you can pipe in the drain valve. 

JakeCK

HVACNUT said:

Insulation aside, don't forget to install a domestic T&P valve. About half the reverse indirect's I see don't have one because they think the 30 psi relief valve is it. The other half don't bother with the mixing valve and keep the tank at 120°. Always shaking my head. 
If your domestic is 3/4, an 1-1/4 × 3/4 × 3/4 sweat tee and a 3/4 street x female in the run so the T&P goes right down in. 3/4 off the bull to the mixing valve. 
Same setup on the cold so you can pipe in the drain valve. 

Does this tank have a domestic pressure relief valve? Its a reverse indirect I think so it doesn't have the same volume that a normal indirect has. And with this being a reverse indirect the temperature of the water in the tank is what ever the boiler is. I don't think the aquastat on this tank even goes that low because it would be in danger of condensing the boiler. One most certainly does need a mixing valve with this tank because of that. It is entirely possible to have much higher water temps than 140.

mattmia2

You are heating the water in the coil on the domestic side. That coil needs to have a t&p valve.

jad3675

HVACNUT said:

Insulation aside, don't forget to install a domestic T&P valve. About half the reverse indirect's I see don't have one because they think the 30 psi relief valve is it. The other half don't bother with the mixing valve and keep the tank at 120°. Always shaking my head. 
If your domestic is 3/4, an 1-1/4 × 3/4 × 3/4 sweat tee and a 3/4 street x female in the run so the T&P goes right down in. 3/4 off the bull to the mixing valve. 
Same setup on the cold so you can pipe in the drain valve. 

Yeah, I have a domestic TP and a mixing valve. I keep the tank at 140, with a cut in at 125. DHW on the mixing valve is set to 112.

John

JakeCK

mattmia2 said:

You are heating the water in the coil on the domestic side. That coil needs to have a t&p valve.

Than it is not shown on the shop drawings or it has to be added external of the tank. I'm looking at the drawings right now.

There is only one pressure relief valve shown, and that's for the buffer tank, not the coils.

JakeCK

Got a second to read the manual. Yes It does call for t&p valve. Has to be installed on a threaded T. Interesting that they don't provide a port for it. And whats even more interesting is that at least one example piping diagram doesn't show it.

mattmia2

the code requires a relief valve on any vessel in which you are heating water. in this case it is a coil heated from the outside so there isn't really a way to put a separate tapping in for it so you have to do it like you do with a tankless coil with a tee or like you used to do it on a water heater before people were deemed too stupid to install a tee and t&p valve.

JakeCK

Not all water heaters. The manufacturers of some electric tankless water heaters do not require a pressure relief valve unless it is plumbed with plastic.

mattmia2

JakeCK

Wow guess I'm wrong. Better let these guys know too:

https://www.titanheater.com/faq/printable.php?p=default&cat=7