Automatic Water Feeder Malfunction
Comments
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Have you cleaned the strainer? The plug on the back that is at an angle.0
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@JUGHNE What is the fitting with the black label between the supply isolation valve (yellow handle) and the feeder? Another strainer, check valve, backflow preventer?0
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Does water flow if you open the bypass valve (green handle)?0
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That is your backflow preventer.
As Steaming asked, is your green lever passing water when you open it?0 -
The strainer is probably clogged0
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If you can fill the boiler with the bypass valve (green handle), just use that until spring, then take apart the feed valve. You can usually clean them and make them work again, but you might want to put a filter on the line. Also add those uinons and a couple of shut-offs so you can remove it more easily next time.Just another DIYer | King of Prussia, PA
1983(?) Peerless G-561-W-S | 3" drop header, CG400-1090, VXT-240 -
Thanks, I was able to zoom in on the label and read it. Technology is amazing.
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Hey ya'll thanks for the helpful advice. I didn't notice the y strainer before. The green bypass valve works and I've been using it to keep the boiler water level correct. I will try to clean the y strainer after heating season is over; hopefully that does it.0
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If you do disassemble the feeder strainer, you might want to get some replacement parts. The valve looks like the DEMA design used in the Hydrolevel feeder, but the name and numbers on the valve body are not clear enough to read. Can you post a more readable closeup of the valve?
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@SteamingatMohawk I cant seem to upload pics, keep getting 'failed to upload' error. It's a uni-match model WF2-U-24.
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Mcdonnell-Miller-WFE-24V-Unimatch-24V-Electric-Water-Feeder-2016000-p
Any risk of causing a leak by opening the y strainer?0 -
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That's why you're supposed to have shut-offs on either side of the feeder. That lets you remove the feeder and still feed the boiler via the bypass.Just another DIYer | King of Prussia, PA
1983(?) Peerless G-561-W-S | 3" drop header, CG400-1090, VXT-240 -
What, spend 50-100 to do it right? C'mon Man! Many times there's a reason for a low bid on a job.Hap_Hazzard said:That's why you're supposed to have shut-offs on either side of the feeder. That lets you remove the feeder and still feed the boiler via the bypass.
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Yeah, I am noticing the effects of shortcuts taken. Too bad there is only one isolation valve0
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When I replaced my VXT feeder, I tried to use the unions, but didn't have the time or space to just build the complex on the bench, so everything would fit. I ended up with some misalignment, so it's not as pretty as I like to do. To beat the isolation valve issue around the feeder, I added an isolation valve before the tee for the feeder and bypass and accepted not being able to add water to the boiler at that time. I also have an additional valve just before where the feed line connects to the return, so I essentially have the separate isolation valves and can run the boiler if needed.
The unions for that size copper I could find locally are not brass or bronze fittings and are extremely flimsy copper. I bought some but was not satisfied with them, so I just eliminated them and will bite the bullet if I have to and use sweat couplings if I ever have to remove anything.
It's a VXT that I had to do the Gordo modification on to get the readout to be right side up. Not a difficult task, just be extra careful reassembling the spring and plunger.1 -
@2wheelinfool Just post the numbers and the name that are part of the valve/strainer casting. the number looks something like 5-45 and I can't read the name.0
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Supply House has the strainer and cap as a repair part. It may also include a copper washer/gasket.0
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@SteamingatMohawk I have some brass ½" sweat unions if you want them. I got them for my water piping and never used them. Now I'm thinking of replacing it all with PEX. (I did my water feeder piping with all brass NPT pipe.) BTW, I think I got these at a Sears Hardware store if you have one near you that hasn't closed yet. They used to have an amazing selection of brass fittings.Just another DIYer | King of Prussia, PA
1983(?) Peerless G-561-W-S | 3" drop header, CG400-1090, VXT-240 -
@Hap_Hazzard Thanks for the offer, but I don't have any plans to modify what is working. Sears has disappeared from the area where I live. If I remember correctly I also checked both FW Webb and Grainger with no success.
My arrangement is oddball and I put the bypass on the straight through section with the feeder teed off below it.
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@SteamingatMohawk McMaster Carr has them but I've not laid hands on so I can't say how well built they are -
https://www.mcmaster.com/unions/type~union/solder-connect-fittings-for-copper-tubing-7/
BobSmith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
3PSI gauge0 -
@SteamingatMohawk Keep it in mind in case you ever need to redo it for any reason.
Speaking of oddball arrangements, here's how I hooked up my VXT. Sorry it's a little blurry.
I wanted to position it next to the LWCO. I had to shorten the handles on the ball valves. The bypass is the red handwheel at the far rightJust another DIYer | King of Prussia, PA
1983(?) Peerless G-561-W-S | 3" drop header, CG400-1090, VXT-240 -
Unions and isolation valves are the way to go for sure. I haven't had any issues with the strainer clogging, but if it needs cleaned it's easy.
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Do you need that bottom valve?
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el0 -
You talkin' to me?ethicalpaul said:Do you need that bottom valve?
If so, yes. It keeps the water from leaking out if I need to feed the boiler while the VXT is removed.Just another DIYer | King of Prussia, PA
1983(?) Peerless G-561-W-S | 3" drop header, CG400-1090, VXT-240 -
No, I was talking to KC...yours I can't tell what the heck is going on
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el1 -
I'll post a pic of my setup after I take one. This is getting to be like posting pics of our kids!!0
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Unions on both lines, the valves allow me to isolate and remove if necessary.ethicalpaul said:Do you need that bottom valve?
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Yes, the unions are great, but what is the bottom valve for? There's just air in there
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el0 -
1. I'm paranoidethicalpaul said:Yes, the unions are great, but what is the bottom valve for? There's just air in there
2. I have children that have, on occasion, played with valves.0 -
Wait a sec. Is this the valve we're talking about?ethicalpaul said:Yes, the unions are great, but what is the bottom valve for? There's just air in there
It looks like it does exactly the same thing as the lower shut-off in my setup. It keeps fill water from leaking out when you open the bypass, and it also prevents the boiler pushing water out when it's steaming. I'm assuming that pipe goes down to the equalizer.Just another DIYer | King of Prussia, PA
1983(?) Peerless G-561-W-S | 3" drop header, CG400-1090, VXT-240 -
Copper unions
Try your best to get Nibco #733 unions they are .....ok brass to copper
The 633 which is an all copper union...........SUCKS copper to copper
We did a job with 33 fan coil units with HW and CW coils in them so that's like 132 1/2" copper unions with 6 good pipe fitters on the job I was running the 633s probably 25% of them leaked when installed correctly
So now your left with over tightening them or doping them (wich I hate) or teflon tape they just suck
To bad the one in the picture they could have at least left more room between the tees so someone could add unions0 -
KC_Jones said:
Yes, the unions are great, but what is the bottom valve for? There's just air in there
1. I'm paranoid 2. I have children that have, on occasion, played with valves.NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el0 -
Hap_Hazzard said:Wait a sec. Is this the valve we're talking about? It looks like it does exactly the same thing as the lower shut-off in my setup. It keeps fill water from leaking out when you open the bypass, and it also prevents the boiler pushing water out when it's steaming. I'm assuming that pipe goes down to the equalizer.Or do you mean when the autofill is removed?? Only remove it when you’re replacing it maybe?
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el0 -
Here's a different point of view on the feeder isolation valves. As long as there are valves both before and after the feeder/bypass complex, there is no overriding reason to install extra valves to isolate the feeder. Why? Boilers don't use so much water that the makeup source must be available while the feeder/bypass arrangement is being worked on. Any competent person working on the complex would make sure the boiler is at the filled level before starting work. Then days, if not weeks are available. In an extreme case, a garden hose could be attached to the drain to add water, if really needed.
The only exception I can dream up is if the feeder leaks by and needs to be isolated for an extended period of time, but then since the boiler doesn't require constant feeder availability, this is a moot point.
Depending on access to the strainer, the feeder does not have to be removed to work on it. It might be easier to work on it on the bench, but how often does anyone, in reality, inspect/check it?
The key concept in all of this is "both before and after" in the first sentence. My system had it before I bought the building, so it works for me.
If others don't, this discussion is irrelevant.0 -
Yes.ethicalpaul said:Or do you mean when the autofill is removed??
No. I have to remove it to work on it.ethicalpaul said:Only remove it when you’re replacing it maybe?
When I installed my VXT, I was a relatively inexperienced homeowner, so, when the instructions said to install shutoffs and unions before and after, I was inclined to follow them. Besides, it seemed like a good idea, and I could see where it could bite me in the behind if I didn't, and, sure enough, a few years later I'm starting up my boiler for the season, and I turn on the power expecting the autofeeder to activate and fill the boiler, and it's activating, but it isn't filling. So I close the shutoffs, undo the unions, disconnect the wires, and filled the boiler with the bypass. I was glad I had them.
The only scenario where I can see this making sense for a pro would be if you had a "loaner" water feeder you could drop in and take the malfunctioning unit back to the shop to fix it.Just another DIYer | King of Prussia, PA
1983(?) Peerless G-561-W-S | 3" drop header, CG400-1090, VXT-240 -
In a way it's a little like main venting... it's almost impossible to have too much. Except for the cost of the bits and pieces. Likewise, in my humble opinion, valves and unions. I like that setup for the feeder!Br. Jamie, osb
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England1 -
a few years later I'm starting up my boiler for the season, and I turn on the power expecting the autofeeder to activate and fill the boiler, and it's activating, but it isn't filling. So I close the shutoffs, undo the unions, disconnect the wires, and filled the boiler with the bypass. I was glad I had them.
They definitely don't hurt but couldn't you have just opened the manual feed to fill your boiler without undoing the unions and disconnecting the wires?NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el0 -
Don't get me wrong. I am sure many of us enjoy the process of installing the valves, unions and other fittings. In my case I had a bit of an arrangement challenge and already had both isolation valves if I ever needed to work on the feeder. Others may not be so ""lucky".
On the other hand, more joints, more chances for leaks sooner or later.0 -
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That depends a lot on the arrangement. Easy to get mislead. Been there, done that. Good idea for my mental troubleshooting efforts.
Troubleshooting is like asking questions. I like asking equipment, not people. Equipment doesn't lie to you, sometimes people do.
The trick is to ask the equipment the right question and understand the answer the equipment gives you. Especially true in electrical circuits. Plumbing is a bit easier.1
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