triangle tube prestige solo 110 vibrations/noises

mjcasti

Hello,
Our boiler has been making noises that seem to be associated with the unit vibrating. The intensity of the noise varies and it seems to depend on the 'load' that is being placed on the boiler. It's been doing this for about a year, and the vibrations/noise have just gotten worse. I've read lots of forum posts about different noises these boiler make and it's clear that it is not a simple thing to determine what the problem is, but when I look at it and poke around when it is making the noise, it does appear that the blower is what is vibrating more than it should. When I press on the black housing on the back part of the blower the noise subsides substantially, but I can still feel lots of vibration in that spinning (I presume) blower. I will try and post a video that includes the noise shortly.
To my simpleton mind, it seems that it likely needs a new blower.
When it first started making the noise we had the installer come out and check the combustion 'levels' (he had an expensive tool that did an important measurement) and he said it looked good. The boiler is probably like 10 years old. Thanks for any help!
Mike

Derheatmeister

It is not uncommon having to replace a Blower after 10 years.
Dust and Pollen can get attached to the Blower and sometimes it will cause a imbalance which will reveal itself in the form of vibrational noise..It most likely is not going to get better and it cannot hurt to be proactive and change it before it becomes a Friday afternoon/Weekend service call.
Before you invest in this Blower replacement i would highly advise to check the Bolts that hold the burner plate onto the HX (Heat Exchanger),Sometimes on certain models of the Triangle tube Boilers the bolts break and you will need a new HX.
In addition to the Blower replacement i highly recommend cleaning the Burner via compressed air outside.
At the same time the service company should probably also service/clean the Trap,Rods and the HX if needed.Combustion should also be checked and Adjusted if needed.
Hope this helps.

Zman

I would also help to post a picture of your vent termination. If the boiler is sucking in its own exhaust it can present the symptoms you are seeing.

mjcasti

Thanks so much for the replies. I will check the bolts and get some pictures and/or video uploaded. While not cheap, it does look like changing a blower is not too hard to do if it comes to that
Kind regards,
Mike

mjcasti

here are some pictures showing input and output venting. Think this shows what you were looking for Zman. The 'exhaust' goes outside of house (last photo). Input seems to just open to the room the boiler is in which is really a closet that leads to the crawl space of the home.

mjcasti

here is a link to a video showing vibration and noise and how it goes away when I press on the back of the blower. Note, the vibration persists when I press, it just makes it quieter. Vibration seems somewhat excessive and not normal. Should say that sometimes it's noisier (more vibration) that what is shown in video. Thanks in advance.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZzRJymtqkNtgn1T77

Zman

That sure sounds like a bad fan.
You are correct that it is pulling combustion air from the space.
The exhaust location is probably too close to a few things but is not causing the noise.
The rubber "Fernco" on the exhaust vent is alarming as is the silicone gooped around the boiler adapter. The pipe should be properly seated in the boiler adapter gasket, the Fernco should be replaced with a primed and glued PVC coupler and the pipe should be secured so it will not be knocked loose if the boiler has a violent preignition. These items are not related to your noise but represent a CO leakage safety issue.

Derheatmeister

Zman is correct.
Up here in Colorado this would not pass the inspection and it could possibly be "Red Tagged" due to the code violations and hazards.
1. The venting is against the code and installation instructions as it terminates to close to another appliances exhaust which given the right circumstances can also seen as a source for a possible air intake allowing your home to bring in the exhaust....>>>Carbon Monoxide poisoning<<<
2. Usage of a Rubber coupling in the Mech room and no proper support using band iron.
3. Depending on the size of the Closet and the type of doors to it ,the combustion air may not be as per installation instructions.Let me guess,Sometimes it sounds like a jet plane taking off.You probably wouldn't have noticed the noise if the Intake air/combustion air was hard piped to the outside.
4. Usage of silicon on exhaust vs. replacement of both Gaskets.We quite frequently change these dry rotted gaskets.We find these gaskets deteriorate faster especially when your boiler is operating on a high temperature setpoint vs modulating using low temperature and the outdoor sensor.
5. The relief valve should be hard piped vs.using PEX ...Hard pipe can handle a high pressure/high temp relief situations better that PEX tubing and some inspector will not allow it.
Are you on Natural gas or propane?
I hate to be negative but a site visit from a professional that is unbiased/Did not install the system most likely will reveal more issues.
Unrelated to this thread: The Ice dams look pretty scary and like they could hurt someone
Respectfully submitted.

mjcasti

thanks for the great comments. Turns out I am in Colorado. The unit was installed as part of a reno project we did to the house and I don't think the furnace was ever inspected, but I could be wrong there. Our installer no longer services our area and there is only one or two places that work on heaters out here sort of in the middle of nowhere (Crested Butte, CO). I know this is a long shot, but you don't happen to live in this area? :-).
I'll maybe contact Triangle Tube and see if they can recommend anyone in the area. I just don't think the two places here have much experience with TT products, but I could be wrong and will give them a call too.
Thanks again for the great advice/information.
Mike

Derheatmeister

I kinda figured that you are in Colorado when i looked at the Blue bird day in the Pictures..
I am in the Breckenridge area and service up to Fairplay/South park if it involves a Solar system or Viessmann systems.
I will reach out to a friend that services that area..
TM sales which is the Colorado Rep. May also have a "Poster Child" for this area.

Zman

@CBRob does property management in your area.
He has been on the forum recently looking for a qualified contractor. You might PM him and see if he has had any luck finding someone qualified.

Shane_2

That does sound like a bad blower fan to me.
When you or if you have someone change the blower: Have a set of long forceps or long needle nose pliers available. I replaced two last year where the blower fan broke apart and dropped into the heat exchanger. One was on a 110, the other a 175. After a few choice words and a little extra work, I was able to remove all the pieces so they wouldn't melt in the exchanger. Even used a small shop vac to make sure it was clear.

Derheatmeister

Shane_2 said:

That does sound like a bad blower fan to me.
When you or if you have someone change the blower: Have a set of long forceps or long needle nose pliers available. I replaced two last year where the blower fan broke apart and dropped into the heat exchanger. One was on a 110, the other a 175. After a few choice words and a little extra work, I was able to remove all the pieces so they wouldn't melt in the exchanger. Even used a small shop vac to make sure it was clear.

Shane ..At this point it is highly advisable to actually remove the entire Burner from the HX !

It is easy and will allow for a better insight on the overall condition of the boiler.
1. The Technician will be able to get a visual on combustion chamber of the HX, judge it and clean it if deemed necessary.
2. The Technician will be able to get a visual on the Burner and the Rods
3. The Technician should remove the Blower, if the blower wheel is broken or breaks it is easy to remove the pieces without Forceps.
4. Before installing the new blower with the new gaskets we use compressed air to remove all the years of dust that has accumulated inside of the burner...Do this outside,it is amazing how much this burner acts like a air filter. Especially up here in the Highlands we have dust and pollen that gets trapped in the inside of the burner.
5. Cleaning and adjusting the rods is way easy while the burner is on the table vs in the boiler.
6. Of course ...Check the combustion with a analyzer,adjust it to manufacturer's specs and make sure that the boiler is safe.
This boiler currently is operating in a unsafe matter and needs more services than a new blower

CBRob

Hi guys
Zman, thanks for tagging me.
I refered MJ to the best Triangle Tube guy in the valley.
That is a sad looking install, for sure. Glad the installer of that mess has moved on.
My last couple triangle tube installs went great,
Even the cheaper Instinct is melting a driveway like a champ

CBRob

I hate removing the top of these burners... the 2 stainless bolts snap off so easy, can turn into a completely ruined boiler quickly.

Derheatmeister

CBRob said:

I hate removing the top of these burners... the 2 stainless bolts snap off so easy, can turn into a completely ruined boiler quickly.

Generally when we arrive they are already broken off !
We discuss the matter with the customer before we even get close to the appliance.
There are other underlying issues that cause the bolts to break off in the first place !
We have noted that some customer just do not think that it is important to perform yearly maintenance .. It's like not changing your oil on your car for 200 k Miles.
If the rods are contaminated or distorted it can cause a rough light off/Ignition...Depending on how much resistance your HX has( Clogged HX or long exhaust pipe runs) this creates a lot of back pressure which can break the bolts off !! This is also why Zman recommended removal of the "Fernco" rubber coupling !
Again...Before we remove the bolts we make the customer aware of this Issue,We remove the bolts going in both directions as if you was removing a rusted exhaust manifold bolt.
If one bolt is broke we >>>MAY<<< be able to tagg the customer along for a couple days if there is no Carbon monoxide and the equipment is not a danger,but this may become a problem if the customer turns a blind eye to this situation and you was the last contractor touching the equipment.
If more than one bolt is broken we >>>WILL<<< have to "Red Tag" the boiler to keep everybody safe.
Our customers understand that we are just trying to keep them safe.

mjcasti

wanted to give an update here. Sorry for the long delay. Had the expert come in and sure enough it needed a new blower. It also needed a new venturi which has degraded such that it (the black plastic(?) part) was super brittle and breaking up. The fan blades were worn and little piece broken off, so it was essentially out of balance and hence the vibrations/noises. He said that the venturi and fan breaking down was from improper venting. He was saying that the exhaust was essentially getting pulled back in as input air and that bad air will degrade the parts. I just wanted to thank you all for the help and to say how great I think it is to have a board like this which gives such good and accurate advice, which seems really hard to find on the internet :-).

Erin Holohan Haskell

@mjcasti, thanks for coming back and giving us an update.

Derheatmeister

mjcasti said:

wanted to give an update here. Sorry for the long delay. Had the expert come in and sure enough it needed a new blower. It also needed a new venturi which has degraded such that it (the black plastic(?) part) was super brittle and breaking up. The fan blades were worn and little piece broken off, so it was essentially out of balance and hence the vibrations/noises. He said that the venturi and fan breaking down was from improper venting. He was saying that the exhaust was essentially getting pulled back in as input air and that bad air will degrade the parts. I just wanted to thank you all for the help and to say how great I think it is to have a board like this which gives such good and accurate advice, which seems really hard to find on the internet :-).

Thanks for the feedback
Couple questions:
1. Improper venting: As we can see from the pictures that you supplied the venting cannot "Regurgitate" or Pull exhaust back in as combustion air since it is taking air from the Mechanical room ..not the outside ! Hmmm....
2. Did the Service tech fix the Issue with the Silicon and the rubber coupling on the venting near the Boiler/ replace the Gasket ?
3. Did the tech check and adjust the combustion and leave a printout of the results ?

mjcasti

Hi Derheatmeister,
the way the exhaust was getting pulled as input was from the exhaust air getting pulled back into the room where the boiler was. This happened because, if you look at my earlier pictures, there are two venting holes that leave that room and go outside. One is from a previous installation and the other is the current output from our boiler. The second vent is just to allow air to flow into the boilder room from the outside. So the air was getting sent outside where it blew right next to the input vent that was getting sucked into the boiler room which then used it as input.
We are waiting for the snow to melt so the tech can access the roof and vents to redo then so we aren't pulling the exhaust back in before he re-measures and adjust the combustion.
He has not fixed the silicon coupling. He flagged it as an issue and he thought it should be fine, although not something that should have been done. Since the costs of fixing all this as already so high, I said if he thought it would be safe then just leave it. If you think it might cause safety issues down the road, let me know and i'll dig deeper into my piockets. It doesn't look like it would be too hard to fix.

Derheatmeister

If the exhaust is Pulled back via the preexisting old vent into the mechanical room and it is so potent that it deteriorated your Fan this sounds like a possible hazard.
As a Certified Carbon Monoxide specialist we would have taken this equipment out of operation (Red tagged it ) until proper repairs are performed.
Do you have a CO monitor/detector that is less that 5 years old in that area ?
Be Safe..