UNICORN FOUND....Boiler with Oil Burner in my area.....Need Help!

JUGHNE

Got a call from 2nd generation landlord. Family has a ranch with old house with maybe 60 year old boiler, he thinks it is steam. Got a few pictures from him.
This is a 80 mile round trip so I need to be prepared.
I replaced all the FAF oil burners I encountered with HP or FAF gas over 30 years ago.
Most were Lennox with the little belt drive and even some Timpken with spinning oil arms.

So from the pictures so far I see a Beckett (UL No AH-441884)
Model AFG series burner, MP 1192 0.5-3.0 GPH
Pump is A2VA-7116 Brand name is ??nter (can't read first 2 letters)
2 pipe from outdoor UG tank
HW control (45 sec...red reset button...can't read numbers from picture)
Looks not to be the original burner on Peerless Boiler.

He will send more pictures, he thinks it is steam but could be HW.

Questions:
Does anyone know the specs of the nozzle,(other then the GPH)?
(I do have a fair collection of oil nozzles)

Is there an internal oil filter in the pump?

Is the motor coupling something unusual? Reusable if removed for motor change?
(Owner thinks motor is bad, if you tap on it the system will start. He has a new one on the way....could just be a loose connection, but it is his money)

Haven't see main oil filter yet, but General's were common around here.

No one can recall when boiler was last serviced.
Works if you tap on the motor though.

So the adventure begins.

For some unknown reason I have been watching Steve Lav's Utube and seen a lot of oil burner service work......why I don't know....this will be the first oil burner I have heard of in years, let alone seen.

HVACNUT

It could be the motor. Did he order a PSC? 
A tap on a stuck R8184G primary will also sometimes get it up and running. 
In the past I've been supplied with burner couplings specifically for the AFG. Easy enough to cut a retrofit coupling though. 
What model Peerless? That would narrow down the Beckett OEM setup. 

Steamhead

Post the pics!

EBEBRATT-Ed

Yes Sundstrand pumps have a strainer. I would bring a strainer and a gasket, nozzle, oil filter and a spare set of electrodes and a coupling.

Bring everything and return what you don't use

JUGHNE

He took the picture of the motor nameplate and had an exact replacement ordered.
It will be there Thursday, I can't go there before next week.

Is the coupling between the blower wheel and pump, with the motor connected to the blower wheel. What do you mean by a retrofit coupling?

Pictures sent to me were not good, no more info than I have typed.

I can just make out the word "Peerless" on the label picture. No other details.

Would all models use the same strainer, or is it actually a round donut filter, and
gasket?

There might be oil parts 220 miles away, that would be overnight.

A look thru Johnstone book has most items but I do not see the filter/screen/gasket for the pump.....is that just a cleanable screen or a real filter?

Thanks for all your help, I'll keep you informed.

JUGHNE

And another noobie question, I see Steve Lav checking oil flow by putting a hose on the bleed valve and cracking it open. The pump motor will run quite a while as the flows oil out. There typically were no oil shut off solenoid valves out here.
So when the bleed valve is open, does oil not go to the nozzle and therefore not flood the chamber?

FWIW, this pump has a return line.

MaxMercy

JUGHNE said:

And another noobie question, I see Steve Lav checking oil flow by putting a hose on the bleed valve and cracking it open. The pump motor will run quite a while as the flows oil out. There typically were no oil shut off solenoid valves out here.
So when the bleed valve is open, does oil not go to the nozzle and therefore not flood the chamber?

The oil will follow the path of least resistance, so when the bleeder is open, the pressure behind the nozzle is very low. I doubt there is more than a dribble if even that when the bleeder is open. The pumps are high pressure, low volume.

EBEBRATT-Ed

@JUGHNE

Open the bleeder wide. The pump will not be able to overcome the pressure regulator inside the pump so no oil will go to the nozzle when the bleeder is wide open.

The strainer in the pump is cleanable but most would put in a new one if the old one is gunked up bad. I would have a new gasket, sometimes the old ones rip sometimes they stay stuck and you can use it over. Just tell the supply house you need a coupling for an AFG. Coupling just slips on motor shaft and pump shaft no set screws

A lot better than a Lennox belt drive, the Idler pulleys used to fail.

And I watch Steve Lav too. He gets them running but is somewhat of a hack

JUGHNE

Can the bleeder unscrew too far and come out?

I recall now that most old pumps I saw here had the bleeder, never opened one, didn't know about it, just winged thru getting things running. Did down fire all nozzles to the smallest size to know what size of gas furnace or HP would heat the house, as I knew a change out was in the future....especially if I said I no longer do oil....no one else around here would touch oil.
Would drop one size per year until the smallest for the unit, never had anyone complain of lack of heat.......just more proof that everything was greatly oversized 40-50 years ago and still is today, not as drastic though. I did buy the shake bottle kit for CO2 etc....still have it. Smoke pump, temp gauge, draft indicator and what ever else came with.
But, I was still an oil hack.

Steve Lav is interesting and entertaining, learn a lot of short cut tips from him. He is great with that cut off grinder isn't he? Never saw anyone else stuff so many things into a truck and be able to find it when needed..... usually.

HVACNUT

If it's a 2 pipe system, suction and return, there's no need to prime the pump at all. It'll self prime.

EBEBRATT-Ed

@JUGHNE

Yes if you unscrew the bleeder all the way it will come out. 3/8 box wrench. But lke @HVACNUT said two pipe bleeds itself.

I usually pull the oil filter out at the tank then with a pan under the filter open the tank valve to see if you have good flow there. Put the new filter cartridge in. Pull the strainer in the pump and clean that.

Most of the time if you pull the nozzle and the nozzle screen is gunked up then the oil filter and strainer will be gunked up too. When I put it back together with a two pipe I let it bleed it self if it locks out before it get's oil that's ok because i always chek the safety that the burner will lock out.

Steve L likes to open the bleeder to check oil flow. Not a bad Idea

JUGHNE

With a two pipe system will the bleeder still bleed/purge?
I am curious to see what the oil looks like with unknow years on the filters, so might bleed some to observe.

Alan Welch

Yes, you can still bleed with a two pipe system, where is this located?  Maybe someone here is local and can assist you. 

JUGHNE

I am in North central Nebraska.
Pretty far from anyone posting on the wall.

MaxMercy

EBEBRATT-Ed said:

And I watch Steve Lav too. He gets them running but is somewhat of a hack

The thing that surprises me is the way he checks the filter and screen by opening the bleeder and observing the flow. If he gets good flow, he calls it good. In my (admittedly amateur) experience with oil burners, there is a small window from when the flow is good to when the filter is full, then it's a lockout on sub-zero weekend night (are they programmed to do that??).

I've changed a bunch of filters that were still flowing well, but had a nice coating of pudding on them. Just a matter of time before they start causing lock outs. I always change the filter and clean the screen after servicing any oil burner, and most of the time they need it even if they're still running.

JUGHNE

Steve has commented on that subject.
His theory is that oil is cleaner than it used to be. IDK?
I believe he does this for his regular customers whom he may visit every year.
If it is a first visit on a new customer I believe he changes the tank filter and inspects the pump filter.

If I ever get to the boiler I have posted about, both filters would get changed, they could be years old.
Owner has not sent more pictures or called as he has planned.

If this was not a boiler, possibly steam, I would not even consider the job.
I cherry pick my work now.
I will not miss the road trip if he does not get back to me.
We are looking at -15 degrees over the weekend.

MaxMercy

JUGHNE said:

Steve has commented on that subject.
His theory is that oil is cleaner than it used to be. IDK?

I agree with him on that. Oil does seem cleaner than it used to be. If filters weren't changed every year years ago, it would rarely make it through the heating season. These days, I've seen some go several years between any kind of servicing at all and still running.

The pump screen usually only needs to be cleaned. Years ago, they seemed to get packed with sticky, hard black tar that couldn't be removed, but I don't see that anymore (cleaner oil?).

JUGHNE

Just to explain the "Unicorn" term used, looking on the NE state site of energy usage:
There are 765,490 housing units in the state which has 77,300 square miles,
(social distancing is achieved and has been practiced for over 100 years....actually more cows than people...6.3 million head for 1.9 million people):

60% use NG.....29% use electric....8% use LPG...and fuel oil usage is 0.41% for a total of 3114 units...
wood is even more popular at 1.1%
and somehow 0.42% have no usage or no heating equipment...maybe summer cabins for Snowbirds??

EBEBRATT-Ed

@JUGHNE

Wow. When I started in 73' New England (I am in MA) was over 80% oil with gas like 18% and electric and other stuff made up the rest. Gas has made huge inroads here in the last 40 years, so much so that they are restricting gas installations in some areas due to the gas grid can't handle it and for Green Carbon issues.

I have no idea what the split is now

I agree with @MaxMercy

Checking flow from the bleeder is fine but only means you have oil flow at that time, doesn't mean the filters are clean.

What I used to do was change the tank filter and put a nozzle in. If the nozzle filter is clean the pump strainer was probably ok. But that was for customers that had regular service. If it hasen't been checked in a while I would pull the pump strainer

PC7060

JUGHNE said:

Just to explain the "Unicorn" term used, looking on the NE state site of energy usage:
and somehow 0.42% have no usage or no heating equipment...maybe summer cabins for Snowbirds??

@JUGHNE - It's all those cabin around the old sand pits now "summer fishing" lakes. Does your wife remember Duncan Lakes near Columbus? Those place were pretty popular in the 60-70's May still be.

JUGHNE

Well, I may not get to see the "Unicorn" after all. The owner said they got it running, he did not know what fixed it....something electrical he thought. (I am guessing the HW module might have been the problem)
He does own a new burner motor that did not fix it though.
He was not very forthcoming in even calling that things are working.
Probably the last chance I'll get to have my hands and tools saturated with the aroma of fuel oil on them......darn.

I thank all of you for your great input and advice.

We are in the deep freeze here, had some 34 below zero in the state. Maybe only 24 below here.
As mentioned above the state is 29% electric heat, so most of that being heat pumps and OAT -10 to -20 the resistance elements are in use.
So there are rolling black outs from mismanaged electric production and distribution.
We used to have a solid system but suddenly we are connected to Texas wind turbines that are frozen up.
But all the "suits" feel good that they have chosen "Green".
Even talk to take more coal plants off line to install solar.
We are fortunate to have a good NG delivery system (so far) and our own stand-by generation plant (diesel/NG) for the village.

Jamie Hall

I wondered if the nonsense had gotten as far as you, @JUGHNE . Sorry about that. But a nice sneak preview, I'm afraid, of what's coming down the pike from the head shed.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Yeah, I got a kick out of the turbines in Texas freezing up. But I feel bad for the people down there with rolling blackouts.

When I started new England was over 80% oil. Gas has made big inroads in that I have no idea the % now.

But some areas can't get gas due to them slacking off on the infrastructure and some cities like Cambridge, MA are stopping or have stopped natural gas to go green.

But when they can't charge there cell phones things will change

I did nothing but oil the first 13 years in the business #2,#4 & #6 oil..

I don't miss the smell at all