Copper fittings

jgaudet

I just picked up a watts air separator and all they had is a 1-1/4 but my copper pipe where it is being installed is only a 1 inch line could someone tell me what part I need to make this work on my 1 inch line? Thanks 

jgaudet

@Youngplumber thank you!! 

Zman

This is the easiest https://www.supplyhouse.com/Elkhart-30346-1-x-1-1-4-Copper-x-Male-Adapter
If you can find it locally you can use a 1 1/4 MPT to sweat and a fitting reducing coupler.

jgaudet

@Zman ok thanks,  I think my hardware store has them ones!

Intplm.

@Youngplumber What made you decide to pipe an air scoop? Have you considered using a spirovent type of air eliminator?

mattmia2

Intplm. said:

@jgaudet What made you decide to pipe an air scoop? Have you considered using a spirovent type of air eliminator?

Especially since his current setup is pumping toward the boilers, a microbubble scrubber automatic air vent like a spirovent/discal would be a better idea.

STEVEusaPA

Use it for a paper weight, then go get a microbubble reabsorber for air elimination.

jgaudet

@Youngplumber was just answering a question for me! Does people not read the thread first lol 

@STEVEusaPA what do you mean paper weight? Lol if the air separator is no good I can take it back and just get a caleffi or spirovent if that would be better?

Zman

jgaudet said:

@STEVEusaPA what do you mean paper weight? Lol if the air separator is no good I can take it back and just get a caleffi or spirovent if that would be better?

You will get better performance with a microbubble separator.

jgaudet

Ok I'll take the air separator back, would you recommend a caleffi or spirovent or they both about the same effective? 

EBEBRATT-Ed

@jgaudet

Before you return it check prices. Spirovent or caleffi are great but they cost$$

jgaudet

Ok I'll check at a few spots tomorrow 

hot_rod

Horse asks buggy technology 🤪 High performance high efficiency systems should have high performance air separation. Consider an air and dirt combination with a magnetic function

The Steam Whisperer

My favorite is the B&G IAS.... still a dumb piece of cast iron, but much more effective than "air scoops", cheap and no maintenance. I used the fancy stuff at one time, but prefer simplicity for reliability and ease of maintenance. It much better matches my preference for simple CI boilers. I've done my share of high tech and have learned there may be a better way.

Robert_25

The Steam Whisperer said:

My favorite is the B&G IAS.... still a dumb piece of cast iron, but much more effective than "air scoops", cheap and no maintenance. I used the fancy stuff at one time, but prefer simplicity for reliability and ease of maintenance. alt="" />

Same here. I have a 1.5" B&G IAS in my system with one of their 3/4" vents. Found it on ebay as an NOS item for very little money, and have been very impressed with how well it works.

hot_rod

The Steam Whisperer said:

My favorite is the B&G IAS.... still a dumb piece of cast iron, but much more effective than "air scoops", cheap and no maintenance. I used the fancy stuff at one time, but prefer simplicity for reliability and ease of maintenance. It much better matches my preference for simple CI boilers. I've done my share of high tech and have learned there may be a better way.

The failure on air purgers is the float style vent up top not the body. The vent mechanism is pretty much the same on the IAS, EAS or the micro-bubble style separators, a float and needle valve of some sort.

Really the only difference is the media inside that collects the microbubbles on the high performance coalesing separators.
Unless the fluid has a low ph or lots of crap, what are the failures in microbubble separators.

If a system has enough crap to plug a air separator, other problems need to be addressed.

The Steam Whisperer

I've found that properly set up piping really doesn't need a micro-bubbler. Tests I've read have shown that after a couple of passes, there is no gain in performance on a typical heating system. And when the vent does go bad, any old auto vent will work for only a few bucks instead of the built in proprietary vents used on most Micro-bubblers.

mattmia2

i suppose if you wanted to be particularly cheap about it, closing the cap, removing the guts and a 1/8" npt tap would get you there.

The Steam Whisperer

In a pinch, there lots of alternatives when you have just a standard thread connection to tie into.

EBEBRATT-Ed

I have used the regular air scoops with a "spiro top " vent on it works pretty good.


Bet vent is a buffer tank or LL header no moving parts

mattmia2

EBEBRATT-Ed said:

Bet vent is a buffer tank or LL header no moving parts

None of the separators have moving parts. All of the automatic vents, weather it is on a microbubble reabsorber or a buffer tank, have moving parts.

Zman

I think the microbubble seps really shine on projects where clearances are tight. They remove air much more quickly as well.
That being said I see the old air scoops installed and working perfectly all the time.

mattmia2

The microbubble scrubbers will remove air from the water so more air can absorb in to the water from pockets that neither got bled or purged or are circulating so it will do a better job of removing the last trapped pockets of air, especially on this system there there isn't a section that is both hot and on the suction side of the circulator.

The Steam Whisperer

Mattmia2...The testing I've seen has shown that that's not true for most ( if not all) systems. It will take a few more passes for the older types to get there, but once the system stabilizes, either type will provide the same oxygen levels in a system.

jgaudet

I ended up keeping the air separator I'm going to give it a try, I just installed it today so I can't say how well it's working yet. Time will tell!

jgaudet

@Youngplumber that's very true! But it's in the ceiling now lol

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

So, the local hardware store didn't have that reducing male adapter. Not surprising. It's more of a plumbing wholesaler item.

The setup you have will work fine.

jgaudet

@Alan (California Radiant) Forbes I wasn't holding my breath that they had the proper reducing adapter ( good thing) lol but they did have parts to make it work at least!

BillyO

OMG!!!!!! The reason that is in ceiling?

jgaudet

Well when I bought the house there was an automatic air vent in that spot it's the highest spot in the system, so I decided to put the air separator there also cause I still hear a bit of air running through my circulator the odd time!  I'm not sure who set everything up but at least I have heat! going to do a major overhaul on it this spring.

hot_rod

It would be interesting to pipe a microbubble separator next to a scoop style purger, run the system for a day with the microbubbler caped off. Then open and see if additional air comes out of the microbubbler.
I've built clear plastic versions of both and you can clearly see micro bubbles flowing trough the scoop type purgers.
Within a few passes all the micro bubbles are removed with a coalescing media.

At Caleffi we have done lab testing on most every type of vent, it is a very definable test and result.
There is no technology inside a scoop purger to remove air micro bubbles, entrained or dissolved air, it will just collect on boiler surfaces.

Perhaps in cast iron boilers those tiny bubbles collect in high points or evacuate out at a high vent on the boiler block.

Microbubble style do not need to be at a high point like scoop style to do a good job.

jgaudet

@hot_rod that actually would be a great idea to try and I actually could be the one to do it because when I do my overhaul on the system I am going to installing either a caleffi or spirovent. I wouldn't mind piping it beside the purger just to try.  Only thing with that theory with them side by side what if most of the air favors 1 side over the other! It might be better to close the cap on the air vent on top of the purger for a day or 2 and see how much air comes out, then remove the purger and put the caleffi in its spot and close that cap for a day or 2 and see if it has more or less air trapped! 

hot_rod

We have a pretty extensive flow testing lab. We do a lot of testing in our lab of different designs. We can very accurately measure the air that we pump in and what comes out and the time. We also flow at very high FPS to see how well the microbubblers work when over pumped, also.

Not much air comes out of a ramp style purger at 8-10 fps, it blows right through

The Steam Whisperer

Its curious that your testing revealed something opposite the testing I had seen previously...that over time standard air separators remove just as much oxygen from the system as microbubblers. Microbublers just did it faster. In your testing, did you run the B&G IAS models.... they are not air scoops.

jgaudet

@hot_rod can you get me a good deal on a caleffi and ship it to me in Canada? I'll put it to the test lol

jgaudet

.

jgaudet

@hot_rod i found a caleffi air separator on eBay for sale it is a 551003A 3/4 npt but there is no hole on the bottom isnt there supposed to be a npt on the bottom of them also or do some of them not come with it? 

mattmia2

Looks like it has a tapping on the bottom for the expansion tank:
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Caleffi-551003A-3-4-NPT-Female-DISCAL-Air-Separator

jgaudet

That's what I thought they all had a tapping for an expansion tank!  I was about to buy this one on eBay but it don't have the tapping on the bottom is it a knock off version?