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System Piping Schematic - Request for Review

ewang
ewang Member Posts: 73
edited December 2020 in Radiant Heating
Happy Holidays everyone!

I'm to the point of purchasing my circulators and final components to finalize my staple-up with plates and panel radiator with TRVs install. Attached is a proposed schematic and relevant information below.
***Note that red and blue lines crossing do not mix....

Goal is to run the entire system on constant circulation and optimize comfort.

Boiler
- Weil Mclain Evergreen 70
- Outdoor Reset with limits to be tuned
- Stubbed out for eventual indirect Hot Water Heater

Infloor Stapleup Joist Trak for upstairs
- Single zone with for upstairs controlled by Honeywell T6 slab/air T-stat
- 3 Loops of 1/2 Hepex, with no loops longer than 300 ft
- Balanced via Uponor EP manifold
- Design SWT 120*F with manual mixing valve for fine tuning
- Estimated 11,250 btu/hr total heat with 0.5 GPM per loop = 1.5GPM total, assuming 15* delta T
- Estimated pressure drop of 6.2 ft (pex, fittings, manifold)
- ALPHA2 15-55F set to constant speed

Panel Raditors with TRVs for finished basement
- Single zone controlled by override T-stat to prevent overheating. (Set above desired actual setpoint)
- Homeruns to EP manifold or copper manifold
- Each panel radiator is equipped with TRV for local & automatic control
- Design SWT 140*F
- Estimated 21,000 btu/hr design load with total flow of ~2.9 GPM, assuming 30* delta T
- Estimated pressure drop of 7.6 ft (pex, radiators, H-valves, fittings)

How does this setup look? Am I missing any critical purge points, or valves?
I plan on using the integral check valves, but could be talked into dedicated checks after the circ's.

Thanks!

Comments

  • PC7060
    PC7060 Member Posts: 317
    edited December 2020
    I’m a DIY like yourself but I’ll send you the guidance the @mattmia2 gave me, move your tank and makeup line to the supply side of the SEP.  

    “The air separator needs to be between the boiler outlet and the pump. the tank needs to be on the suction side of the pump. The prv is typically at the air separator and the tank.”

    https://heatinghelp.com/systems-help-center/pumping-away-piping/

    I’d also add Webstone Isolation valve with drain on the return side of each zone; simplify maintenance later if you have drain one side or the other. 
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 4,964
    edited December 2020
    It's wrong-ish. I think the constant circ of the alpha, manual mixing valve and the trv's are going to give you a problem by conflicting logic. At some point all the trv's may close.
    Why are you mixing it twice (LL header and mixing valve) even 3 times if you used the Alpha properly?

    There are some good examples here:
    https://www.caleffi.com/sites/default/files/coll_attach_file/idronics_19_na.pdf
    steve
  • ewang
    ewang Member Posts: 73
    @PC7060 Regarding the location of the make-up water and expansion tank, I was following guidance from idronics.
    https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/159052/hydraulic-separator-piping

    @STEVEusaPA Could you explain where I could be mixing 3 times? I understand I have:
    -Sep4 mixing
    -Manual mixing valve (just in case)

    For the case of all TRVs closed, how would you suggest I handle that? Autoadapt?
  • ewang
    ewang Member Posts: 73
    edited December 2020
    @STEVEusaPA
    Reading through your link from idronics, this figure is systematically similar to mine, but replace the pressure regulated circ with my boiler circ, and the zone valves with circulators instead. Similar situation, unless I'm grossly misunderstanding something.

  • PC7060
    PC7060 Member Posts: 317
    ewang said:
    @PC7060 Regarding the location of the make-up water and expansion tank, I was following guidance from idronics. https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/159052/hydraulic-separator-piping 
    Yes, make sense with that SEP in the system. Thanks for the response. 
  • ewang
    ewang Member Posts: 73
    @PC7060 No, thank you for the challenge! DIY'ers like ourselves would never have success without challenging each other and sharing the wisdom of others. Regarding the drain and isolation valve, thank you for the suggestion. That's one of the reasons I chose the Uponor EP manifold, since they come with purge and vents integral to the manifold.
    https://www.supplyhouse.com/Uponor-Wirsbo-A2670301-3-Loop-EP-Radiant-Heat-Manifold-Assembly-w-Flow-Meters
    PC7060
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 2,978
    Where is that Simpsons where marge says I can give piano lessons, i just have to stay one lesson ahead of the kid?
    ewangPC7060STEVEusaPA
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 4,964
    mattmia2 said:

    Where is that Simpsons where marge says I can give piano lessons, i just have to stay one lesson ahead of the kid?

    I forget which sit com, (maybe Cosby), but when the kid was asked (paraphrasing from memory) “What do you think you can do with a 4th grade education”? The kid answers “Teach 3rd grade”!

    steve
    PC7060
  • ewang
    ewang Member Posts: 73
    All joking aside @STEVEusaPA any additional thoughts given my comments above?
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 14,785
    The expansion/ fill valve can be at any of the 4 connections on the sep. The entire sep becomes the PONPC. I like the bottom as the fluid is a bit cooler, not a big deal on a low temperature system.
    Assuming the red pipe off the sep supply to the system is sized properly, your manual mix and panel rad connection is fine.

    The line off the sep is an extension of the sep and needs to be large enough to supply the requires gpm to both circuits.
    I suspect your drawing line size is just for an example?
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • ewang
    ewang Member Posts: 73
    @hot_rod all lines are 1” in both the primary and secondary loops. Lines from the manifolds to panel radiators or the floor loops are 1/2”. 
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 14,785
    1” should handle 10 gpm, so if that covers the zone requirement, you should be fine.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    ewang
  • ewang
    ewang Member Posts: 73
    @hot_rod thanks for all your help, knowledge and guidance!
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