Odd size nozzle?

bobrown

Greetings! I have a Nordyne furnace with a Beckett RWB burner model AFG. The side panel on the unit specified a .70gpi 70 degree “Semi Solid” nozzle. This is hard to find. Most nozzle are solid or hollow. Is there a different nozzle that might work and is easier to locate? I have not opened up the up the burner yet to see what is actually in there... 

HVACNUT

Is this a down flow furnace?
How old is it?
Who will be installing the nozzle?
Can you post a pic of the ratings label?

bobrown

It’s under 10 years old but, older than 5 years. It’s a horizontal type furnace. I was going to switch it out. I am a “joe homeowner” trying to save some money. Also changing pump screen, 1a tank filter at the same time.

SuperTech

Look for a Delevan .70 70W. Unless you are replacing the nozzle with the same one that is being used you will have to check oil pump pressure and perform a combustion analysis. You cannot accurately determine that the burner is operating safely by looking at the flame 

HVACNUT

Well Mr. Joe Homeowner, saving a little now can cost you a lot later. 
Anything related to combustion should be done by a qualified tech, who when finished will provide a combustion report to help ensure nobody wakes up dead. Especially this close to the holidays. 
Are you having issues with the furnace or just trying a maintenance?

bobrown

HVACNUT said:

Well Mr. Joe Homeowner, saving a little now can cost you a lot later. 
Anything related to combustion should be done by a qualified tech, who when finished will provide a combustion report to help ensure nobody wakes up dead. Especially this close to the holidays. 
Are you having issues with the furnace or just trying a maintenance?

No real issues. Usually have a service company do this work but have not called them yet. I hesitate to call them because these big companies with the fleet vans keep raising their “general cleaning and maintenance” fees higher and higher. I also think oil furnace calls go to the technician lowest on the totem pole. On our last furnace, it was running poorly. I looked into the oil pump screen.... it had never been replaced in 10 years of service calls... full of gunk! Also, we seemed to get a different nozzle each year depending on what was “on the truck”. 

I guess a high efficiency propane furnace is ultimately the way to go.

bobrown

I ordered a .70 70w online Thanks!
I also ordered extra filters, screens, electrodes and coupler. Just in case a technician come and doesn’t have that part on his truck. Also good to have spare parts in case of late night emergencies.

HVACNUT

Nothing wrong with having parts on hand.
A .65 70°W is more common and within the range of the furnace. 
Keep in mind a nozzle can have up to a plus or minus 10 percent actual firing rate @ 100 psi than what is stamped on the nozzle. As actual GPH gets lower, that 10 percent can be huge. Without the right tools, clean, safe combustion cannot be verified. 

STEVEusaPA

Something's fishy. Any competent 'service company' would have that nozzle.



Anyone?...Anyone?....Bueller?

Big Ed_4

Nice

EBEBRATT-Ed

I haven't seen many .7gph nozzles around here. Usually .65 or.75. Could use a.65 and bump the pressure

bobrown

EBEBRATT-Ed said:

I haven't seen many .7gph nozzles around here. Usually .65 or.75. Could use a.65 and bump the pressure

Only found one .70 70 degree W nozzle supplier online.
got this email in return:


The picture with the foil tape is a quick fix. The flap does not close properly. Gasket is worn. Thought I could smell smoke coming out. Hopefully a technician can check this out.

bobrown

Also, is this a good idea? I’ve been looking around on Craigslist and Facebook marketplace.

neilc

bobrown said:

"The picture with the foil tape is a quick fix. The flap does not close properly. Gasket is worn. Thought I could smell smoke coming out. Hopefully a technician can check this out."

that sounds like a backpressure / draft issue, and really needs to be checked out,
instead of the co2 detector you would be better served with CO detection in the living spaces,

426hemi

Sid Harvy, F.W. Webb,any of the usual suspects I would be shocked of they didn’t have a semi solid nozzle in stock but at that low a firing rate it probably would run better with a hollow nozzle those little furnaces seem to like a hollow pattern and a 140-160 psi just because the furnace calls for a certain nozzle it’s just a starting point if the tech puts a different nozzle in it’s not because he doesn’t have the one it calls for it’s because it runs better with a different nozzle/pressure setup As far as the meter I have that meter and it’s not a full combustion Analyzer it only measures oxygen and doesn’t measure carbon monoxide or carbon dioxide. The price is way to low it should be in the $300-400 range I wouldn’t buy a meter off ebay or amazon under any circumstances it’s definitely needs a new oxygen sensor and I wouldn’t trust it to self calibrate with a new sensor either. Buy a meter from the supply house you use! Be aware you need to replace the sensor or ship the meter out every year for calibration depending on the meter and that will cost more than having someone come to service the burner unless you have multiple oil burners it’s not worth getting a meter you would also need a draft meter and a smoke pump not trying to discourage you but it’s going to cost you more money to buy/service the tools than to hire someone! If you own multiple rental homes or a fleet of boats than it would make sense when talking about 10+ oil burners or so but not 1 or 2.

Dave T_2

I would try a .65 70 A Delavan nozzle and be surprised if it did not fire well. As mentioned Delvan .65 70 W, which are semi solid are available. Years ago I found that Monarch AR nozzles ran much better in many older burners - but AFG Becketts do well with Hollow or Solid in my experience.

426hemi

A .60 gph at 145 is .72gph I would start with a  .60 70A Delavan at 140 psi if any side flame impingement go with a .60 60A at 140psi most small furnaces like a 60 deg nozzle when at the 140-160 psi pump pressure as the higher pressure tends to open the pattern up a bit 

tryduct

This is older tread but wanted to add that 90 percent of maintenance services done in PA,SC and upper NC by licensed hvac/plumbing companies employees are a quick nozzle swap , air filter swap and maybe a oil filter swap.The 145-170$ 20 min service and off they go.Very rare does a tech ever do the proper service as most of you state.Most Don't even check electrodes or if its spraying properly or the proper pressure.I can tell you for a fact this is true having done service in pa ,sc and upper nc.Many times i find last tech has even slapped in the wrong nozzle in and never replaced tank filter or air filters in under house / Attic units! This is a real world issue with maintenance companies and their tech bad habits.Im sure none of you techs here do such things just from the commenting but the reality is its done a lot and most techs never done combustion testing or ever checked the pump filter let alone checked the pressures properly doing yearly service call.I know most techs will try to claim they do it every time , every service but its nonsense and if you go back to all thier logs that show they just spent a whooping  20 mins on each service call you understand they took a lot of shortcutting to get done in 20 to 30min yearly service.Kudos to the " joe homeowner" who will service his unit just about equal to what most techs do already.Best to call a tech and ensure they do service properly.If you have to demand the old fuel filter , air filters and nozzles to ensure tech isn't shortcutting you , watch them service the unit and ensure they do full service you've paid for.Someone done in 20 mins has never serviced a oil burner properly in their entire career.If you want to service your OWN unit then do it but buy the proper tools and proper maintenance items , do it properly.If that means take a course on oil burner maintenance to show you how properly , its cheaper in long run even buying proper tools.145-170 per year saved...

retiredguy

What a bunch of B.S. So, you have followed most every service tech out there into the boiler room to see just what he does during his normal service call. Maybe I should not respond since most of my service was done on large boilers and not residential units. Yes, every profession has it's troubled service techs but most are above reproach as was I. What a slap in the face of the boiler service industry.

GGross

This site exists primarily because there are so many techs who perform shoddy work that a place was needed for professionals who do not perform shoddy work to offer experience and knowledge to correct the mistakes. I'm not sure why so defensive on this, shoddy professionals are not your colleagues and they give the industry a bad reputation.

Steamhead

GGross said:

...... shoddy professionals are not your colleagues and they give the industry a bad reputation.

Amen.

I wouldn't be surprised if the inside of that Nordyne looks like this:

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/188633/soot-vac-was-heavy-when-i-finished-this-one

or this:

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/184249/you-can-tell-how-long-ago-this-was-serviced

or any number of similar threads on this board.

The oil companies complain that they're losing customers. Maybe they don't frequent The Wall?

SuperTech

I can confirm some of what was stated above, about oil service in the south. My father moved from NY to Virginia and I was shocked the condition of the furnace in the house he purchased. All sorts of different used dirty nozzles on the floor near the furnace, plugged heat exchanger,  collapsed combustion chamber.  No holes ever drilled in the flue pipe for combustion analysis. Compression fittings on the oil lines.  A real mess.

I put in a new Thermopride 😁. The local tech who I went through to get the furnace advised me not to,  stating "nobody knows how to work on something like that around here ". I put him at ease by assuring him that I would commission and service it personally. 

I noticed plenty of oil tanks in the area.  It's gotta be poor training in that area. 

HVACNUT

There's a reason oil gets a bad name, and it's not the oil.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Unfortunately good oil technicians are hard to find. No one wants to get dirty anymore. Most of the tune ups I have seen are very shoddy and not thorough at all

Dave Carpentier

Imagine an auto mechanic just putting brake pads only on an old disc with ridge and grooves, because its too hard to get the rotor off.
Or a doctor routinely prescribing antibiotics, because it's easier than getting bloodwork or other scans.
This list could go on and on. Shortcuts.

CLamb

Dave Carpentier said:

Imagine an auto mechanic just putting brake pads only on an old disc with ridge and grooves, because its too hard to get the rotor off.

From my experience auto mechanics routinely change the brake pads and disk without even measuring the disk to see if it needs replacement. This is a more expensive shortcut.