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Spud broke off. Can I still get it out?

I stripped the threads on the union nut when reinstalling, after pulling the radiator to paint it.
Time to replace the valve.
Spud wrench would not grab the spud.
Tried a pipe wrench on the spud and it crushed a bit instead of turning.
So I cut off the union nut and went about cutting out the spud. (cut with a hacksaw to the radiator threads in a couple spots)
Now the spud broke off of the 3/4" valve instead of collapsing. Just kept cutting flush with the radiator instead of releasing from the threads.

Any options left now?






Comments

  • PC7060
    PC7060 Member Posts: 1,136
    edited December 2020
    No going back now.  Just keep gently cutting the wedges until you can pry out. Use one of these or wrap a hacksaw blade with duct tape to form a handle. Good chance you may have nicked the threads on the rad bushing, I’d wrap the new spud several times with Teflon tape and apply pipe seal before threading in.  


    ethicalpaulHVACNUT
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,323
    See if you can get your hand on a Cape chisel. Or take a regular cold chisel and grind it on the side to a 1/4" wide chisel edge. The goal is to use a narrow chisel. All you can do is keep at it with the chisel. Once you get 1 piece out the whole thing will come out.

    What I usually do is make two cuts down as close to the threads as you dare to go. Make the cuts about 3/8" apart. Plan the cuts so that they are in a good place to cut and chisel. Then concentrate on that one spot.

    A center punch may help too.

    Or take the big bushing out. Cutting out larger fittings is easier than small ones. Anything smaller than 1 1/4 " gets tough
    Intplm.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,457
    edited December 2020
    Am I missing something? Why don't you just tap the hole with a pipe thread tap? 
    It needs to be the correct diameter for the tap.

    Also, having bought 1 1/4 and 1 1/2 npt taps and seeing what's needed to drive one I'm thinking it's not an option even if the hole was correct.  I have no idea how you would start one in that position.

    The brass needs to be carefully removed.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • WMno57
    WMno57 Member Posts: 1,230

    Am I missing something? Why don't you just tap the hole with a pipe thread tap? 

    No way to get the tap started in the existing mess. A 3/4 NPT tap requires a clean 59/64 hole. That is an expensive drill bit, and you won't find one at a big box store. Once you obtain a 59/64 drill bit you have to drill a straight and centered hole. Not going to happen freehand. Large drill press and some kind of fixture to hold the radiator.

    I DIY.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,457
    edited December 2020
    WMno57 said:
    Am I missing something? Why don't you just tap the hole with a pipe thread tap? 
    No way to get the tap started in the existing mess. A 3/4 NPT tap requires a clean 59/64 hole. That is an expensive drill bit, and you won't find one at a big box store. Once you obtain a 59/64 drill bit you have to drill a straight and centered hole. Not going to happen freehand. Large drill press and some kind of fixture to hold the radiator.
    Somehow I missed the 3/4 valve.
    Not as bad as the sizes I listed but still an issue.

    I have no idea how you'd get that started either by hand on the floor.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,021
    One can peel the pieces out with the small chisel. It should roll out.
    Then if you have one, a tap would clean up the threads.
    Or running an iron pipe nipple in and out has some good effect also.
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,021
    Maybe, but good chance of screwing up the tap or cross threading the existing iron threads IMO.
    Caping chisel time....it is only brass.
    ChrisJmattmia2
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,429
    you could also take a small chisel and try tapping it counter clockwise at one of the cuts and see if it breaks free or cracks and starts turning out.
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,323
    Cutting out a 3/4 nipple or spud isn't easy and its more difficult to collapse.

    Brass and cast iron just chip away they don't peel like a steel nipple. I would work on it a while if no luck get some help and lay that puppy down and go after the bushing
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,429
    you might try a triangle file in 2 of the cuts you have already until you just see the tip of different color metal
    ethicalpaul
  • retiredguy
    retiredguy Member Posts: 883
    When using a hack saw blade to cut out a broken piece , use a hand saw similar to what @PC7060 showed in his picture. From what I can see in the last (bottom) picture you did not cut deep enough on the brass piece further back into the threaded portion. You have to be very careful when using a hack saw blade but with a little practice and patience you will feel the increased friction when you transition from the soft brass to the harder cast iron threads. When you feel this increased friction STOP because you are at the threads you want to reuse. Then as @EBERATT-ED wrote get a "cape chisel" or make one or try a good commercial "ice pick" to tap out the cut piece. It is not easy on such a small fitting. Last, I would borrow a thread tap to clean and straighten the threads in the rad before installing the new spud.
  • WMno57
    WMno57 Member Posts: 1,230
    edited December 2020

    Your sticking a small cone into a slightly bigger cone,with a soft metal buffer you should gently guide yourself into alignment. 

    Taps do not cut material within the circle that is the minor diameter of the threadform. You are correct that NPT is a tapered thread with a cone shape. However the tap will not remove material inside of the minor diameter at the bottom of the cone.

    Too much brass within the minor diameter. The tap can neither cut it nor push it out of the way.

    Maybe somewhere there exists a self drilling 3/4 NPT tap. The average tap is not self drilling.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screw_thread#Diameters
    I DIY.
    psb75
  • HomerJSmith
    HomerJSmith Member Posts: 2,393
    edited December 2020
    What about a 3/4" easy out? Spray in some PB Blaster and tap it then use the easy out.

    I think Harbor Freight. com has easy outs (nipple extractor).

    The way you would use it is to spray the blaster on the threads and tap in the nipple extractor, spray more, tap more, etc, then extract the broken nipple.
  • MaxMercy
    MaxMercy Member Posts: 497


    I think Harbor Freight. com has easy outs (nipple extractor).
    .

    I have a set of those, and they really came in handy removing a snapped off valve from a well head manifold (unobtanium on a Sunday when those things happen). The broken pipe extractors work really well:





    I don't know how well they'd work once that many cuts have been made on the brass though.



    Zipper13
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,429
    btw, leave the spud wrench in it when you try to turn it with a wrench the next time so it doesn't collapse.
  • jessestaton
    jessestaton Member Posts: 4
    Fixed. 
    A trip to Harbor Freight for a set of chisels that included a cape chisel. Then some PB Blaster in case it would help. Put a torch to the bushing a couple times (luckily I had used high temp paint on the radiator). 
    Using a couple different chisels from the set I was finally able to peel out the brass. Used a dremel tool with a stone and a sanding drum too.
    As you can see I caused a bit of damage to the threads but plumbers tape and great white compound seems to have filled the gaps.
    No leaks.
    Thanks all for the feedback. 

    PC7060Dave T_2Neild5
  • WMno57
    WMno57 Member Posts: 1,230
    Looks Great! I like the contrast between the white radiator and the brass fittings.
    I DIY.
  • flat_twin
    flat_twin Member Posts: 350
    It's a Festivus miracle! Glad you saved it
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,323
    Threads don't look great but teflon tape and dope can fix a lot especially when the pressure is low.

    Good job @jessestaton

    Cape chisel is the way to go
  • jhewings
    jhewings Member Posts: 139
    Another option is remove the bushing. Is not easy of course. I do it with the radiator lying on it's side on the porch. Heat it first and use a cheater on the pipe wrench.