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warmboard cost

WillyP
WillyP Member Posts: 45
I am thinking about using warmboard on the second story of my new house. Has anybody used it? Does it work as well as they say it does? Also how much does it cost to buy the boards? Their web page offers a free estimate, but I am not ready for a sales pitch (yet) so I am reluctant to go that route.
On another note. They have a competitor I think it is called ecoboard. Does anybody have info on them?

Comments

  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 5,319
    Pricing isn't allowed on this site.
    Warmboard is better, Ecoboard costs less.
    Who's doing the design?
    steve
    WillyP
  • psb75
    psb75 Member Posts: 478
    Warmboard is the best. Has insulation. Ecowarm is a radiant system that doesn't have insulation. There is also Raupanel and Sunboard panels. These also don't have insulation.
    WillyPRich_49
  • EzzyT
    EzzyT Member Posts: 1,167
    @psb75 Warmboard doesn’t have insulation on there panels. 
    I’ve used many different type panels and have found that it all comes down to the overall design. In some applications 8” spread works better then 12” spread. So I would start with a design like @STEVEusaPA has mentioned.
  • psb75
    psb75 Member Posts: 478
    You are right EzzyT. I handled Warmboard "a few years ago". I liked it and the design services of the company were great. Raupanel has an 8"o.c. and a 6"o.c. spacing option.
  • WillyP
    WillyP Member Posts: 45
    Well it figures. My first post and I broke the rules. But thanks for all the info guys. I'm checking out those other brands as well.
  • Tom_133
    Tom_133 Member Posts: 773
    WillyP,

    Its a bummer that warm board doesn't just post on their site what the cost is. It is definitely pricier than the rest, but in my opinion has better recovery speed than the rest. I dont typically put radiant on a second floor (bedrooms) but due to the quickness in which warmboard can recover from a sleeping temperature setback, I will.

    They are very quick to respond to email, and knowledgable, it may be worth emailing your questions direct
    Tom
    Montpelier Vt
    WillyP
  • TAG
    TAG Member Posts: 489
    Have done quite a few projects with Warmboard ... my fist being a 500sf one story bump out in the early/mid 00's. The product was very new and they only made the S product initially. We used it over a new slab w/ foam board insulation. The existing house had a wood floors -- needed the new wood floor to flow as if built at the same time. New room had lots of windows, open on three sides to the weather. Much debate back then about radiant and wood flooring and I needed enough BTU's. The product worked as advertised -- the heavy AL panel really grabs the PEX and transfers the heat. It's quick to respond.

    My current project has about 3k sf of the building Warmboard -- the other 2k is evenly split between a new slab and a large living room that we did not remove -- installed retrofitted plates. It was just turned on three weeks ago and working as expected.

    There is a contractor learning curve with Warmboard -- they all look at it like it's going to be a problem and after they have the 4th sheet down they love the stuff. Same with the HVAC people -- new product for them and they had little experience with PexALPex. I told them it was easier than Non -- Al ... Again -- they finished up faster vs what they allowed. A block of wood and rubber mallet and it is in the grove.

    You should call Warmboard -- they are very responsive. They have a small layout fee. They will do more of the engineering if you want/ need. I try and do the panels so the tubing does not have to go in prior to the interior walls -- but, this may be my fear as I did see another big job (9k sf ) were the contractor had no issues. The plan they provide shows all the panel types and how they go and also what panels get cut and saved for other areas -- they also have dummy panels that get used in areas where no heat is needed/ wanted.

    Another nice thing is the rep comes out and goes over things and that helps the panel install. There is a kit for lining up the panels and routing around items ....like HVAC register locations. I have never used the 'R" panel ... I used cross manifolds on this project.

    The product is not cheap ...I can't really comment on how it matches up to other products. You don't do radiant to save money . I'm an old house guy that likes wood floors ... my projects are always old stone buildings with new additions and lots of glass. I know it works and I have never even thought of using something else. Also -- the product needs insulation under it .... I always insulate my interiors for sound anyway ... so simple fiberglass under the floor. I do spray foam for the exterior walls.
    WillyP
  • WillyP
    WillyP Member Posts: 45
    I am curious about one thing. I am using the warm board on the second story. Do I still need to insulate under it? My thinking is the heat from the first floor will rise through the floor. Any loss through the bottom will just enter the first floor living space.
    Ladylincoln
  • TAG
    TAG Member Posts: 489
    Want insulation under the Warmboard -- direct all the heat into the space you want warmer .. all you do is increase the cavity temp w/o insulation.

    insulation is cheap .... Stops sound travel as well

    WillyP
  • Rich_49
    Rich_49 Member Posts: 2,616
    WillyP said:

    I am curious about one thing. I am using the warm board on the second story. Do I still need to insulate under it? My thinking is the heat from the first floor will rise through the floor. Any loss through the bottom will just enter the first floor living space.

    Yes , you need to insulate under it . Physics requires it
    You didn't get what you didn't pay for and it will never be what you thought it would .
    Langans Plumbing & Heating LLC
    732-751-1560
    Serving most of New Jersey, Eastern Pa .
    Consultation, Design & Installation anywhere
    Rich McGrath 732-581-3833
    kcoppjohn p_2
  • Paul Pollets
    Paul Pollets Member Posts: 3,429
    All radiant applications should be insulated in joist bays to prevent downward loss and reduce sound transfer.
    Rich_49
  • Zman
    Zman Member Posts: 7,001
    WillyP said:

    I am curious about one thing. I am using the warm board on the second story. Do I still need to insulate under it? My thinking is the heat from the first floor will rise through the floor. Any loss through the bottom will just enter the first floor living space.

    Contrary to popular opinion, heat does not rise. Warmer fluids( including air) are less dense thus more buoyant so they will tend to rise above colder fluids.
    When you are thinking about radiant heat, think of it as light. It knows nothing of gravity so it is indifferent to going up, down, or sideways. If you want most of the heat to go up, you need to insulate all other options.
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
    WillyPkcoppRich_49
  • Ladylincoln
    Ladylincoln Member Posts: 1
    I am working on finishing our basement, and putting warmboard-R. Am working on getting the bathroom roughed in, putting dricore under the boilet, shower, and bathtub, coming out 50" from the outer wall. Then placing the warmboard-R in the 54" floor space. Have been considering using Redgard on the dricore, before putting the laminate down on the flooring around the toilet, shower, and bathtub, putting the wall framework on top of the dricore, doing the insulation. The garage, is part of the basement, in this 1946 house, which doesn't have room for a car, and am planning on turning it into a reading room, replacing the garage door with an exterior wall. I want to use the warmboard on the floor. Question is, will I have to drill holes in the cement wall between the basement and the garage to run the plex tubing into? And I was told that I can use the warmboard-R, on the walls on my second floor, which would replace the old connector, in the wall heaters. The basement has an unfinished ceiling, so was planning on putting the radiant heat in between each of the rafters, to provide heat for the first floor. I have no plans, and wonder what it would cost to have someone who is experienced with warmboard, and building the home run system with self balanced manifolds, creating a 3 zone system. We are retired vets, and I can only do things in sections. I have a brand new htp 199,000 but firetube boiler, and a 100 gal, indirect storage tank ready to be installed. We are in College Park, Md. and my number is 240-462-9802. My father was a union steamfitter, and master plumber, so learned quite a bit from him, before he died.
    john p_2
  • psb75
    psb75 Member Posts: 478
    Warmboard (the co.) can help you with design.
    Rich_49
  • Rich_49
    Rich_49 Member Posts: 2,616
    psb75 said:

    Warmboard (the co.) can help you with design.

    Not really sure this is a true statement . I imagine they could help but this is what I have seen over a half dozen times someone told me they had paid Warmboard for a design .
    You didn't get what you didn't pay for and it will never be what you thought it would .
    Langans Plumbing & Heating LLC
    732-751-1560
    Serving most of New Jersey, Eastern Pa .
    Consultation, Design & Installation anywhere
    Rich McGrath 732-581-3833
  • WillyP
    WillyP Member Posts: 45
    Warm board will charge for a design. They deduct the cost from the cost of product, if you buy a certain amount, but I doubt a bathroom would meet that threshold.
  • Rich_49
    Rich_49 Member Posts: 2,616
    Yes , they will charge for a design . Just as they did for the people who handed me designs from WB which contained the disclaimer I posted . Imagine their surprise when they also had to pay me for a DETAILED design
    You didn't get what you didn't pay for and it will never be what you thought it would .
    Langans Plumbing & Heating LLC
    732-751-1560
    Serving most of New Jersey, Eastern Pa .
    Consultation, Design & Installation anywhere
    Rich McGrath 732-581-3833
    john p_2
  • woobagooba
    woobagooba Member Posts: 134
    I'm in the middle of making a similar choice. Project is 420 sq ft kitchen reno. Due to lack of joist cavity space (sister-ed to flatten floor) and additional thermal resistance of the subfloor, we decided to go over the subfloor with a panelized product with an aluminum top layer. Product also had to accommodate 3/4 oak flooring fastened right over it. Quickly narrowed down to Warmboard R versus Ecowarm. There are a couple other options, but they wont talk directly to me (I'm not in the trades).

    The estimates I have. Warmboard R is about 30% more expensive, uses an OSB panel, provides a thicker aluminum layer, and requires PAP tubing. Ecowarm uses a plywood panel, a thinner aluminum layer, and can work with O2 barrier PEX. Both offered similar lead times and design services (credited to the purchase). I am leaning towards the Ecowarm for lower cost, ability to use O2 barrier PEX, and my GC prefers the plywood base for finished floor fastening and resistance to water damage if a dishwasher leaks, etc.

    Curious what you all think of this analysis.

    Cheers
    Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
  • Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
    Alan (California Radiant) Forbes Member Posts: 2,969
    edited February 14
    I just finished a job for an architect who was building his own house and his thinking was along the same lines as @woobagooba. He liked Warmboard a lot, but balked at the price. He even went so far as to try to negotiate the cost; knocking off the shipping charges, but they wouldn't budge. Eventually went with Ecowarm because he liked that it was made out of plywood (not OSB or MDF), that you can use 1/2" PEX where some of the other brands use smaller tubing which forces more loops and that there were significant cost savings.

    Myself, I have only seen and heard good things about Warmboard. Their product support is excellent and the thick aluminum skin is the best at extracting heat from the fluid. If you have the cash and want nothing but the best, go with Warmboard. Ecowarm is a close second. Their aluminum skin is much thinner, like a commercial grade tin foil and as far as I know, they don't have local reps to come by and hold your hand. The hand-holding can be a big deal for those unfamiliar with radiant heating, both DIY's and GC's. It is very comforting to know that you are assembling the product properly and to have someone there to answer the many questions that come up.

    As far as performance, both products will heat your house as long as you follow the published guidelines of each product. Required water temperatures needed to heat the structure will be lower with Warmboard than with other products, so there will be savings in utility costs over the years, but you may have to wait decades to recover.
    Often wrong, never in doubt.
  • TAG
    TAG Member Posts: 489
    edited February 15
    At sub 500sf ... what's the savings? (no pricing allowed)

    I have only used Warmboard ... did just recently see a sample of the Eco. Someone brought it to my job to look at my new Warmboard S. It is nowhere near as nice a product ( I have a sample of the R) .... can't tell you anything about performance differences ... other than to say the Warmboard works. The Eco has a very thin skin of AL .... I would not bet on using any glue to hold the Oak if using wide boards. The Warmboard's Al is not going anyplace. My project was glued and nailed as some of the white oak was wider then 12"

    And what's the issue with AL pex? .... it's actually easier to use and install vs the reg pex. It has a memory -- stays straight ...flows right into the channel ... hit it with a wide rubber mallet. The Al pex goes in and stays in place -- very tight against the walls of Warmboard .. no issues with it coming out. It's pennies more ..

    Warmboard says you can use reg pex - they recommend Al because they say it a better product for the application in terms of heat transfer.

    I ordered the Pex from Warmboard this time ... no additional shipping charge and it's almost the same price ... easy install and the rep showed up to give any guidance.
  • woobagooba
    woobagooba Member Posts: 134
    A kilobuck here, a kilobuck there ... it adds up on the reno tab. Warmboard R alum is 0.025 thick versus Ecowarm 0.01. Neither are easy to peel back from the panel (I've tried with the samples). 2.25 wide 3/4 oak flooring ... glue/alum not an issue. A couple local well-regarded plumbers are advising to steer clear of PAP ... they have had delam issues. Good to hear O2 barrier PEX is suited for Warmboard. Local rep support is attractive and worth a bit more. That leaves the OSB versus plywood panel detail and the occasional dishwasher flood.
  • TAG
    TAG Member Posts: 489
    Have not heard of any Al pex issue with heat .... there was some plumbing issues with dissimilar fittings. maybe that?

    The Eco Al was thin and we pulled on the part that was in the groove .... the Warmboard is one piece over the whole panel. I still own the first project I did with Warmboard --- early 2000's

    Remmember the Warmboard has the full sheet of Al -- the under lay is not getting wet. it's going to sit on the panel grooves and drip off the seams

  • woobagooba
    woobagooba Member Posts: 134
    edited February 24
    TAG said:

    Have not heard of any Al pex issue with heat .... there was some plumbing issues with dissimilar fittings. maybe that?

    Coincidentally I came across this ... https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/178743/cracking-pex-tubing#latest. That post plus local plumber advice ... I'm staying away from PAP.