Clog in oil supply line

ethicalpaul

Hi all--

My mom's house in southern NY has an exterior above-ground oil tank. The oil furnace with pretty new Riello burner is of course in the basement, so about 8 feet lower than the bottom of the tank let's say.

The filter is on the basement floor just before the burner.

The furnace safetied-out this week with the red light on the burner and restarted a few times but then refused to start. It was failing at the step where it tries to ignite the fuel.

So I called for service. They found no oil at the burner, nor the filter, so they put a CO2 blaster on it once, and I guess they could tell it didn't clear, so they hit it again, and that time it cleared.

Now the furnace is running fine.

But the thing that's bothering me is: where is the clog now? Wasn't it shot back up into the tank, and it will make its way back to the supply line eventually?

What is the thinking for this kind of situation? Is there a way to clean the tank or use something to dissolve these kinds of solids?

Thanks very much!

Jon_blaney

How is the supply line attached to the tank? Supplies that leave the top of the tank allow a space at the bottom of the tank for junk to settle out. Is it possible that it was ice?

ethicalpaul

That's a great question, I'll ask my mom for some pictures. The only oil tank I've had, had a feed out the bottom of it so I guess I thought they were all like that.

I can tell you it's a single line feed.

There's so much I don't know, but it seems to me that it would be difficult for it to be ice since before it was ice, it would have been water, and if it could block the feed line as ice, it would already have been drawn into the burner as water.

EdTheHeaterMan

That CO2 charge did not leave the material that clogged your fuel line at the bottom of the tank near the opening at the bottom so it can immediately return to clog again. When that CO2 charge broke thru the clog, it was like a mini-explosion or gunshot pulverizing the blockage into a spray of tiny buckshot into the fuel. It hung suspended there for some time before settling evenly across the bottom. Yes, the junk is still there but it will take some time to form again. Also, the blast area neat the bottom opening was agitated and there is a creator of "No Contaminants" in the immediate area around the opening.

So for now, the situation is resolved. Unless the clog was ICE. The water will find its way back to the problem area much faster. Then the next time the temperature drops below freezing... (By more than 10°) the ice will again block the fuel line. In that case, I recommend using a force pump to inject a fuel treatment thru the fuel line back into the tank. this fuel treatment should have a pour point depressant and something to suspend water into the fuel so it can not freeze solid. There may be tiny frozen micro ice pieces floating in the fuel but it won't clog the fuel line and will eventually be filtered out or pass thru the nozzle and get cooked away in the combustion chamber.

Add a bottle of treatment with each fuel delivery from now on.

Next spring when the fuel tank is able to be run dry, you can think about cleaning or replacing it. There will be less cost involved if the tank is near empty. If however, the problem is recurring this season, you may need to address the problem sooner.

When was the last fuel delivery? How soon was the fuel line clogged after that delivery? Make a note of this if the clog returns.

I hope this was helpful.

Merry Christmes
Ed

ethicalpaul

Thanks @EdTheHeaterMan for the great explanation!
I bought the house this summer so I have no idea when the last delivery was but it was probably months ago.

I can't rule out ice...it's been getting into the low 20s at night there.

Here's the supply situation for those interested:

Jon_blaney

That wouldn't be my choice of supply connection. That looks like trouble to me. I would think crap could very easily settle in that valve. The valve could also be failing.

STEVEusaPA

The tank is installed illegally, of course. And no firomatic valve is needed at the tank outside, a ball valve would be better. The firomatic is needed where the oil line enters the house, before the filter.
Like the others said, treat the tank, every delivery. Especially if you're using bio. Before the season starts, disconnect the oil line outside and drain off any accumulated water.
Never let another person ever use a CO2 charge on an oil line.
If the line were frozen you would've blown a hole in the line.
I've been doing this for 30+ years. Never owned a CO2 gun, never needed it. If a push/pull pump can't do it, investigate/replace the line

ethicalpaul

Jon_blaney said:

That wouldn't be my choice of supply connection. That looks like trouble to me. I would think crap could very easily settle in that valve. The valve could also be failing.

It wasn't my choice either

STEVEusaPA said:

The tank is installed illegally, of course. And no firomatic valve is needed at the tank outside, a ball valve would be better. The firomatic is needed where the oil line enters the house, before the filter.
Like the others said, treat the tank, every delivery. Especially if you're using bio. Before the season starts, disconnect the oil line outside and drain off any accumulated water.
Never let another person ever use a CO2 charge on an oil line.
If the line were frozen you would've blown a hole in the line.
I've been doing this for 30+ years. Never owned a CO2 gun, never needed it. If a push/pull pump can't do it, investigate/replace the line

Thanks so much Steve. I'll take your advice, although it's hard to stop a tech from using his tools from 60 miles away when my mom is cold haha

Is it illegal because it's not on a slab?

STEVEusaPA

Ya gotta get mom's heat back on!
Yes needs to be on slab, anchored down, and maybe even strapped depending on possible hazzards, like a flood plain.
The firomatic is not 'illegal' outside (I don't think), but definitely not needed or recommended.

BDR529

Run a new line off the top.

ethicalpaul

OK I will. But even if it's off the top, doesn't the line have to have a pickup at the bottom anyway?

EdTheHeaterMan

2" to 3" from the bottom leaves a lot of room for tank bottom deposits. 4" even better and you only lose the use of 14 gallons.

ethicalpaul

OK excellent. So the current tapping is on the actual bottom, and will collect all the garbage. Got it, thank you!

ethicalpaul

Now that I look at it, that rock under the tank leg is comically ridiculous, geez

Dave T_2

while on the subject of outside oil lines. As stated come off the top and extend down to about 2 - 3" off bottom. Here I would add that the line must pitch from the high point at the tank downhill to the inside of the basement so as to not have any chance of heavier water settling in a trap where it might be exposed to freezing and splitting the line.

Solid_Fuel_Man

Is it at all possible to put the tank inside? Absolutely the best place for an oil tank. 

Outside tanks are complete headaches, water, condensation, possibility of snow or ice from the roof tipping it. Just never as good as sleeping in a nice warm basement. 

I'm a propane guy if the tank must be outside. 

STEVEusaPA

I'd still recommend pitching toward the outlet, keep coming off the bottom of the tank, gravity all the way.
Treat the tank, double filtration right inside the house, and let the filters do their job.
--Or--
Inside tank.

Intplm.

@ethicalpaul you can do all the very good things listed above. You can also use some oil treatment to help prevent sludge build-up.

EBEBRATT-Ed

I would treat the tank and run it as is.

If you have more issues come off the top. Tanks are seldom outside so I am assuming there is no space inside.

If I came off the top it would be..........two pipe.

Let me get my bullet proof vest on!!

STEVEusaPA

@EBEBRATT-Ed I agree with half of your statement . Despite not liking 2 pipe, I really don't like running the return out into the cold, I'd rather go Tiger Poop at the burner, more vacuum, warm up the oil a little.

ethicalpaul

There’s tons of room in the basement and an exterior door into it even

EBEBRATT-Ed

I found another advantage to two pipe!!!

Put a new tank in the basement. Leave the suction on the old tank and put the return in the new. When the old tank gets low swap the suction line over.

Can't do that with one pipe @STEVEusaPA LOL

ethicalpaul

I feel like I’ve stepped into a long-standing feud that I had no idea existed 😂

Solid_Fuel_Man

Two pipe "self primes"........

Runs out the door!

SuperTech

Two pipe versus one pipe and Tiger Loops is a subject that not everyone on here agrees on.

Robert O'Brien

EBEBRATT-Ed said:

I found another advantage to two pipe!!!

Put a new tank in the basement. Leave the suction on the old tank and put the return in the new. When the old tank gets low swap the suction line over.

Can't do that with one pipe @STEVEusaPA LOL

Pumping fuel from old tank to new is a no no. Against manufacturer instructions

STEVEusaPA

ethicalpaul said:

I feel like I’ve stepped into a long-standing feud that I had no idea existed 😂

Not a feud. We’re just having fun with our difference of opinions.

EBEBRATT-Ed

No, no feud. I am old and was brought up on two pipe. + all the big commercial burners I did back in the day were always two pipe

EBEBRATT-Ed

+ @STEVEusaPA
is one of the best oil guys here and I respect his advise

426hemi

I would take the line off the valve at the  tank and drain some fuel into a clean container maybe a gallon or so and see what your dealing with without sampling the fuel at the tank it’s a guessing game 

ethicalpaul

Yeah I could see it was a “play feud” 😃

STEVEusaPA

EBEBRATT-Ed said:

+ @STEVEusaPA
is one of the best oil guys here and I respect his advise

I wouldn't go that far, but thanks for the kind words. I'm sure you've forgot more than I'll ever know.

Hopefully in the near future, after we allowed to get together with other humans, HeatingHelp does another get together.
I'd be the first guy to buy Ed a drink.
Although I'd have to have my drink in one glass, and I'll split his into 2...lol

Solid_Fuel_Man

Will Tiger loop straws be available? 

Only new never used!

STEVEusaPA

Solid_Fuel_Man said:

Will Tiger loop straws be available? 

Only new never used!

Yes but they won’t last long. Need to be replaced if they show sign of wear

Robert_25

ethicalpaul said:

There’s tons of room in the basement and an exterior door into it even

Moving the tank into the basement is the way to go.  No more concern of water freezing in the tank/lines, and you can use straight No. 2 heating oil.  Depending on the age of your current tank, it might be best to just install a new tank in the basement.

ethicalpaul

Thanks @Robert_25 that is my plan. Not sure of the timing but that's the goal I think. I once did have an outdoor oil tank in Michigan and during cold snaps, I would have to warm the line with hot water (like if it got to -15F or so)

I won't have to pour a slab like I would outisde and I can run the fill and vent pipes myself.