snow melt stair details

Gary Jansen_4

Hi Guys. My company has gone to a new computer system, and almost all of my pictures from previous radiant and snow melting projects have disappeared into "The Cloud".
3 days of futility, attempting to retrieve 40 years of work.

But, that is not the end of the world.

What is a problem is I am supposed to do some lunch and learns for some engineers on snow melting.
I have been able to find some of my sidewalk, driveway, helicopter pad projects, but I can't find a thing on snow melting steps. I have contacted some of the manufacturers I used to work with, and I have received some of their canned drawings. But what I really need is some pictures of real jobs showing the actual tubing in place, how it was installed, and any details you may be willing to part with to show a proper installation.

If you can help me out, please send info to garyj@fluidh.com
or text me at 920 277 0130

Thanks a lot, Gary

hot_rod

I always admired the way John Abulurrage of Advanced radiant did the Conifer House stairs, tube running up and down instead of crossways. Might contact him for permissions.
I'm sure any of the radiant tube manufacturers would share pics.
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http://radiant-design.com/projects.php?type=snowmelt

STEVEusaPA

I could never figure out how the concrete people formed them for a pour after that.

hot_rod

The biggest issue with stairs is keeping a tube right at that top front nose. You have two exposed surfaces and lots of loss there.

The tube should be 1-1/2" from top and front, and at least 1 more run, ideally two across the tread..
I have seen snowmelt stairs with a ridge of ice across that top front edge.

It is a pain to get and hold a tube in that placement through the pour.

metrosilo

I've had this crazy idea for a couple of years but haven't done it. 
I have a 10x8 deck at my backdoor that I wanted to put ice melt. 
I was thinking of getting 50ft of heat trace cable and strap it to the bottom of the deck boards and add insulation under that. What are the chances this would work?

CDecker

Here is a TimeLapse video of my install that I put on YouTube. All of the details are in the description.

I am not a professional, just a DIY homeowner who has spent a lot of time reading here, and other places online, so be gentle on the criticism.

https://youtu.be/lMb4JjBGurA

No stairs though, just driveway and walkways.

-Chris

hot_rod

metrosilo said:

I've had this crazy idea for a couple of years but haven't done it. 
I have a 10x8 deck at my backdoor that I wanted to put ice melt. 
I was thinking of getting 50ft of heat trace cable and strap it to the bottom of the deck boards and add insulation under that. What are the chances this would work?

You are probably looking at some high watt/ ft roof cable to get the BTU you need to melt a large area. Operating cost may be $$. What about hydronic tube instead?

STEVEusaPA

@CDecker Nice job...fast lol. No criticism from me.
Did you do a design? Seems tube spacing it tighter than needed, but then again, that should melt, then dry it.
What do you have for equipment, and what's the equipment look like?
Look forward to seeing another video of it in action.
You're going to be the envy of the block. Instant advertising when the town's blanketed in snow and your clear and dry.
Might be a new career for you.

TAG

I did a set of stairs ..... It's shocking the BTU's required.

Chris: what's the size of the boiler for the driveway?

My grandparents had a heated drive when I was a kid -- PA. I can't imagine what it cost to run ...

CDecker

STEVEusaPA said:

@CDecker Nice job...fast lol. No criticism from me.
Did you do a design? Seems tube spacing it tighter than needed, but then again, that should melt, then dry it.
What do you have for equipment, and what's the equipment look like?
Look forward to seeing another video of it in action.
You're going to be the envy of the block. Instant advertising when the town's blanketed in snow and your clear and dry.
Might be a new career for you.

Thanks @STEVEusaPA ! I did do a design, several actually. I originally used RadaintWorks software by Watts, but I also ran everything by hand through the Uponor Design Manual, as well as a couple others I found online over the years. I tried using LoopCAD for the layout, but I ended up drawing every loop by hand in AutoCAD, and modifying as necessary to get the lengths and spacing just right.

The spacing is DEFINITELY tighter than necessary. I've read horror stories, some in this very forum I believe, of people not putting enough pex in the slab, or spacing it to far apart, and having issues. In my opinion, pex is cheap, and I only have 1 chance to put it in. I cannot go back and add more later. While some of the loops are at 9" o/c out at the end of the driveway, most of it is at 6". It's all 5/8", and my target was 220' +/- 20'. I bought 500' rolls, and got 2 loops out of each. I don't believe I've ever read a post here or elsewhere where someone said they put to much pex in the slab, or spaced it to closely and are having issues with it melting.