Main Vent Antler

fxrgrunt

So I've decided on the main vents. On my 66ft line I am going to put a Gorton 2 on top of a wye strainer with a nipple to get as high as I can fit it. On the 47ft line i have 3 MOM #1s at the house so I was going to run those on an antler for that main. My question is, should I run 1/2" nipples to the main vents or 3/4"?

ethicalpaul

The gorton #2 has a 1/2" nipple on it, and the #1 ironically has a double threaded nipple that can take 1/2" or 3/4"

1/2" is fine

I don't think I've seen a strainer on a vent before, what's the thinking there?

Fred

1/2" is more than adequate. I'd get rid of the MOM's if I were you and use a Gorton #2 on that main as well. Maybe two on the 66ft main, depending on the size (diameter) of the main.

fxrgrunt

ethicalpaul said:

The gorton #2 has a 1/2" nipple on it, and the #1 ironically has a double threaded nipple that can take 1/2" or 3/4" 1/2" is fine I don't think I've seen a strainer on a vent before, what's the thinking there?

Pretty sure Dan put it in we got steam. The purpose was to protect the main vents from clogging by catching the debris in the strainer and just letting the air into the vent. Then clean out the strainer once a week during the heating season. I'm pretty sure that's how I understood it.

ethicalpaul

OK. Once a week sounds...optimistic

fxrgrunt

ethicalpaul said:

OK. Once a week sounds...optimistic

I just figure to do if atleast whenever I am doing my normal boiler water flush. Not sure how often but I will say ever since working on everything myself, reading the books and using this forum a spend way too much time in my basement staring at the boiler and pipe haha.

fxrgrunt

Fred said:

1/2" is more than adequate. I'd get rid of the MOM's if I were you and use a Gorton #2 on that main as well. Maybe two on the 66ft main, depending on the size (diameter) of the main.

Thanks Fred. The mains are both 2". If I did the calculation correctly the 66ft main would require around 1.51 cfm and the 47ft would require 1.08. I believe the Gorton #2 does around 1.80 and each MOM does .59 so 2 would be 1.18 and 3 would 1.77 or just about equal to the #2. I figured I would run those being I had them already this year and then switch next year to more #2s if I need it. I'm not really sure how much venting past your needs is adequate or if it's possible to over vent. 

fxrgrunt

ethicalpaul said:

The gorton #2 has a 1/2" nipple on it, and the #1 ironically has a double threaded nipple that can take 1/2" or 3/4" 1/2" is fine I don't think I've seen a strainer on a vent before, what's the thinking there?

Paul, here is the link from Dan Holohan where it mentioned the wye strainers. This also was in his book. 

https://heatinghelp.com/systems-help-center/balancing-one-pipe-steam-systems/

question

I would recommend the Barnes and Jones Big mouth vent. It’s has the highest venting capacity of all vents. 

KC_Jones

fxrgrunt said:

Fred said:

1/2" is more than adequate. I'd get rid of the MOM's if I were you and use a Gorton #2 on that main as well. Maybe two on the 66ft main, depending on the size (diameter) of the main.

Thanks Fred. The mains are both 2". If I did the calculation correctly the 66ft main would require around 1.51 cfm and the 47ft would require 1.08. I believe the Gorton #2 does around 1.80 and each MOM does .59 so 2 would be 1.18 and 3 would 1.77 or just about equal to the #2. I figured I would run those being I had them already this year and then switch next year to more #2s if I need it. I'm not really sure how much venting past your needs is adequate or if it's possible to over vent. 


Can't really over vent, but can overspend. There is a point of diminishing returns.

I love the venting capacity chart, but feel people should lower expectations. The capacities you are quoting are at 2 ounces of pressure. Remember this, on startup, and even when the steam starts flowing you are at zero pressure. You can only build pressure if you close vents or don't have enough venting. So to get the venting capacity you are looking at you, for discussion purposes, have to stop the steam with inadequate venting, then it will get to that. If you have enough venting the steam will move faster and build no pressure, or very very little, enough to overcome piping losses. At zero pressure the venting capacity is even less than the 1 ounce rating.

One of the users on here used to say 1 Gorton #2 for every 20' of 2" pipe, I'd say more like 25'-30' for economics, but that should give you an idea of where to start.

Trust me when you get the main venting correct, it will be like a different system.

fxrgrunt

KC_Jones said:

Fred said:

1/2" is more than adequate. I'd get rid of the MOM's if I were you and use a Gorton #2 on that main as well. Maybe two on the 66ft main, depending on the size (diameter) of the main.

Thanks Fred. The mains are both 2". If I did the calculation correctly the 66ft main would require around 1.51 cfm and the 47ft would require 1.08. I believe the Gorton #2 does around 1.80 and each MOM does .59 so 2 would be 1.18 and 3 would 1.77 or just about equal to the #2. I figured I would run those being I had them already this year and then switch next year to more #2s if I need it. I'm not really sure how much venting past your needs is adequate or if it's possible to over vent. 

Can't really over vent, but can overspend. There is a point of diminishing returns. I love the venting capacity chart, but feel people should lower expectations. The capacities you are quoting are at 2 ounces of pressure. Remember this, on startup, and even when the steam starts flowing you are at zero pressure. You can only build pressure if you close vents or don't have enough venting. So to get the venting capacity you are looking at you, for discussion purposes, have to stop the steam with inadequate venting, then it will get to that. If you have enough venting the steam will move faster and build no pressure, or very very little, enough to overcome piping losses. At zero pressure the venting capacity is even less than the 1 ounce rating. One of the users on here used to say 1 Gorton #2 for every 20' of 2" pipe, I'd say more like 25'-30' for economics, but that should give you an idea of where to start. Trust me when you get the main venting correct, it will be like a different system.

This makes a lot of sense and I'm glad you laid that out. I was most definitely using the 2oz chart and trying to understand why everyone was saying to run two Gorton number 2s on the larger line and atleast 1 on the shorter line. I will have to up it next time I order from supply warehouse. Right not the 66ft like has one hoffman 4a and the 47ft line has one hoffman 75 which makes 0 sense so having the number 2 on the 66ft and the 3 mom 1s on the 47ft will already be a huge difference. Maybe in the meantime I should add the current hoffman 75 on with the gorton 2 and add the 4a inline with the 3 moms until I can lay out the money for a few more number 2s. I keep seeing recommendations for the big mouths as well. Not sure if they are any good

fxrgrunt

ethicalpaul said:

OK. Once a week sounds...optimistic

Being I will be making these antlers, what should I clean the pipes off with prior to installing. Being I already have skimming to do I want to ensure I'm not adding more oils back into my boiler water.

ethicalpaul

They will be very small, you don't really have to worry. You can wash them in soapy water if you want to but usually those small 1/2" nipples don't have much or any oil on them anyway.

fxrgrunt

ethicalpaul said:

They will be very small, you don't really have to worry. You can wash them in soapy water if you want to but usually those small 1/2" nipples don't have much or any oil on them anyway.

Ended up doing them like this for now. It's better than the one Hoffman 4a and the one Hoffman 75. After winter I want to remove the 3/8 reducer bushing and everything under the wye strainer so l can do a direct 1/2" reducer out of the T. I only have about a half inch head room on the Gorton 2 and giving myself that extra inch or so will allow me to do a menorah and run two or three.

KC_Jones

Your Y strainers appear to be backwards.

fxrgrunt

KC_Jones said:

Your Y strainers appear to be backwards.

I think you are right. Ya know when I was putting them on I looked quick and the arrow was pointing down so I was like oh they go this way. In reality the arrow should face the direction of the flow... well glad I wasted tonight lol.

ethicalpaul

Which way is the flow???

Neild5

Besides move venting capacity the Big Mouth needs less vertical space than the #2.  It has a spud that uses a 5/8 hex key to tighten and then mounts with a union.  

fxrgrunt

ethicalpaul said:

Which way is the flow???

I was just thinking that as well because steam goes one way and water goes the other lol

fxrgrunt

Alright guys. So I deleted the wye strainers for now. Next year I'll remove the 3/8 nipples and couplings coming out of the T so I can run them. Ended up boiling the old hoffman 75 in vinegar and running next to to gorton no 2 on the 66ft main then the 3 moms on the shorter 47ft main. I'll eventually switch the 75 to another gorton 2 but it's what I have now. The pipe unions made it a hell of a lot easier to install for sure. Let me know if everything looks good! 

dabrakeman

I think it looks good! Should be an improvement.

Fred

In your first picture, the antler looks like it is pitched down. If it is, it will hold water and one or both of those vents may not work. Pitch the antler so it can drain back into the main.

fxrgrunt

Fred said:

In your first picture, the antler looks like it is pitched down. If it is, it will hold water and one or both of those vents may not work. Pitch the antler so it can drain back into the main.

I think it's just the photo angle and the insulation. I thought that too but used two levels and they show its pitched towards the main.